Why Panerai is not overpriced

Discussion of Panerai watches.
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vbuskirk
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Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by vbuskirk » Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:10 pm

This should be fun :poke:

(original link: written by Fred_Tan)

Panerai overpriced? I say way NOT overpriced.
Once the doom & gloom is over, it'll get even more pricier.

Why?
Because it is:

1. Limited production: < 30,000 watches per year. Less than 300,000 watches are ever made so far.

2. Pure usage history: Used by Italian Navy in WW1 & WW2. Was restricted to military usage up to 1994. No other brand has this history of 100% Navy exclusivity from 1860 to 1997. No one has access to this mystery brand till 1995. In fact, from 1860 till 1994, anyone having this watch in Italy or Egypt is either a Navy frogman or a Navy deck officers.

3. Design: Big is in. 47mm is 44mm of yesterday. 60mm is coming soon with arrival of PAM341 that will relive Egyptian's 2/56 model in 1956. 1950's bubble Case is so cool. Luminor shape is so simple yet tough looking & masculine. Rad is dressy but still project the rough image.

4. Technology: Luminor for ligibility under-water & not to mention my old-man eyes & Crown guard for water resistance. Since 1930s, it's been used for nightly underwater sabotage bombings mission in WW1 & WW2 and by deck officers in Italian Navy. Rolex missed the boat and had to ask a lady to swim across English Channel to sell it's Oyster after WW2.

5. Heritage: Current models still maintain strong connection with 1930s model with PAM232 & 249, 1940s with PAM0 & 111 & 1950s release with PAM203, 267, 217 & 127. People buy these watches to associate themselves with XaMas flotilla of Italian Navy's bravery during WW1 & 2 who sank the highest tonnage per head in mankind history.
In 1940s, a single XaMas frogman can sink 100,000 tonnes per month.
A team of just 8 frogmen brought Mediteranean sea lanes to a complete stop in 1930s to 1940s riding on just mere PIGS wearing Rads & Lums that they caused much heated debate & curse in British parliment under Churchill.
No watch brand has ever struck so much damage and no watch brand has ever being mentioned by any statesman in any stateshouse, ever.

Other brands had to sent watches to the moon, underwater, north pole, Antarticas, Everest & give the watches to Pan-AM pilots & James Bond, Rubbens Barrachelo, Governator, team Alinghi, the flop Michelle Wie, Anika and sport figures, actor & actresses and place their watches on magazines, papers, F1 & movies to sell.

Panerai has 130 years 100% usage where every single watch & instruments they made are used by solely Italian Navy & no one else.
This is not a mere sponsorship or stick some stickers like what some watch brands do.
This is real war where you see Italians joining the Axis with Germany & Japan and fought the Allied in battle of deaths. All of XaMas commados never survive both wars.
If Panerai was a fluke, why was the Italian Navy divers risk their lives with the Rads, Lums, Subs for over 130 years?
The fact that XaMas was so feared in the Mediteranean is a proof of supremacy of Panerai watches and they warrant no more ads to pull sales thru.

6. Coolness: It's e very few manual winding watch left in e open-mart nowadays. And, it's e only high-horlogerie brand without any ambassador. Famous people buy Panerai to show off and make a statement that he's tough & cool. Panerai don't go after them and ask them to endorsement.
Most of other brands ask losers like Rubbens Barachello & winners alike to lend their name. Panerai couldn't give hoot. Ads blitz? What's tat?

7. Innovation: Most brands like AP ROO models only change materials to sell. Panerai had to innovate Rads, Lums & Crown Guard without anyones help for real military applications daily usage for 130 years. This is not innovation for few times usage to the moon or Everest but constant usage day after day by Italian Navy divers. Since 2002, they made their own mvmts.

8. Value & appreciation: Panerai is the very few brands where you buy to wear & sell as used pieces with the least losses. This is an understatement as most Paneristi do make money on all models over time.
Even Rolex & PP cannot command appreciation that saw almost all of Panerai models from 1997 till now; PAM1, 2, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22, 23, 28, 36, 56, 123, 127, 187, 190, 194, 203, 217, 219, 232, 239, 249, 292, 309, 322 and soon 312, 305, 317, 320, 332 & 341 command appreciation from 10% to 3500% since launch even after we discount the price drop due to this depression.
No other brand can give such a high valuation appreciation on so many models in just slighly 10 years after public launch.
If you consider Pre-Vendome models from before 1997, the price appreciations for every single Panerai ever made from 1860 till 1997, it's even more mind boggling at over 4000 to 8000%.
The very fact that you only see a submarine PIG model on the display shelf of every AD in the world is a solid testament to this fact.
Many PAM special edition models are sold the very day it's launched.
Regular edition models has wait list of up to 6 years.

Look how much PP 5711/ 5712 & 5980 has crashed?
How about the crash in AP EOD, T3, Polaris, Alinghi, RB1, RB2 & 3 prices?
All are 20 - 40% down.
All are grails.
Look at Pre-V & PAM1, 2, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22, 23, 28, 36, 56, 123, 127, 187, 190, 194, 203, 217, 219, 232, 239, 249, 292, 309, 322 prices....are they down by 20% since Aug-08?

Based on these 8 factors, I can conclude it's the history, heritage, technology, innovation, design, coolness, value & ltd production of Panerai that justify paying USD20k for a watch that only cost USD300 to build.

Many distractors argue that Panerai's ETA6497, 7750 movements made them cheap....my arguments is even Patek 5959 dun take USD300k to make.
ETA6497 & 7750 is a sturdy & robust mvmts & the Panerai who use to place Rolex ebouche use it for Italian Navy tells a lot of it's robustness.
Many PAMs are still ticking till today...

Other sports brands' models from U-Boat, B&R, IWC, EWC, Fortis, TAG, Omega, AP & Breitling, Rolex & etc are sponsoring events & people to buy into Panerai lineage.....
Panerai simply supply Italian Navy real military watches & instruments that has went thru wars....

Simply put, people like me will kill for any Pre-V, a PAM1, 2, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22, 23, 26, 28, 36, 56, 123, 127, 217, 232, 239, 249, 292, 309, 322, 317, 332, 341 & etc just bcos I want to associate myself to XaMas Flotilla self-sacrifice, bravery, brotherhood & successes.

The very fact Paneristi forum that only has 30,000 watches to kill each other for every year has top 3 rank and Rolex Forum with 3 million watches per year forum is only top 50 explains a lot...

I use to swear by Rolex, AP & PP and nothing else...
Today, after losing so much much money on Rolex, AP, PP & etc, I dare to say only Panerai offers me value for investments & 1000% brand satisfaction.

Watch is like an art appreciation. If you want under-price for value, buying watches is wrong move.
You'll be better off buying Pounds sterling, EURO, California, Singapore, Japan & HK properties, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, Enron, Worldcom, Satyam & Stanford shares, DBS High Notes 5 & 10, unit trusts & join Lehman Brothers, AIG, Sunshine Empire & Madoff scheme
Chris

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Jamie
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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by Jamie » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:06 am

Come on they tie to much to the Italian Navy. That would make it the most surrendering watch in the history of modern warfare. :stir:

But are they worth it? Yes they sell as many as they make.

Rick-Holland

Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by Rick-Holland » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:27 am

you forgot 'the rick" is wearing one ;-)

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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by el presidente » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:34 am

It is :stir:

GO on the other hand, producing about 8.000 watches a year is not :love:
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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by mattcantwin » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:56 am

It is overpriced...


because it is too hard for me to buy another one. :tap:
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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by jimyritz » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:32 am

That's a very detailed and thorough write up Chris...

I know something about watches but I don't know all
of the various costs that go into building a watch. Throw in
R & D, marketing and advertising, retail store fronts etc... and then
what.. :think:

Some brands use in-house movement and stock cases, some use hand
made cases and base movements...some use both...to each is own...

I like my newly acquired Panerai because of its quality, history
and fit...no different than my Rolex or my IWC....


Sure there are plenty of copies and look alikes but that is not my cup
of tea...


:cheers:
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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by Seth » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:54 am

CLEARLY its not overpriced.... they're selling watches. Econ 101 stuff, isn't it?

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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by demer03 » Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:38 am

I want one...000

Keep the 800....sell the three 300's?

2 watch guy? (aside from the elcheapos from years ago)
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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by mattcantwin » Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:53 am

demer03 wrote:Keep the 800....sell the three 300's?

2 watch guy?
The damn Pam! :banghead:


It's got me thinking I can sell some "lesser" watches now.


Considering moving the MM out now, and maybe a few more after that.
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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by demer03 » Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:56 am

My biggest fear with PAM, is all the spot on replicas out there...

Have you ever done a Panerai replica search.... :shock:

I could get screwed handily...
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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by dukerules » Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:15 am

Expensive as hell, but so are a bunch of other brands. I could care less about the (somewhat odious) history in this case. I like the uniqueness. Nothing else out there looks like a PAM. More fun for the dollar than any other watch out there IMO. They hold their value pretty well, but the vast majority aren't going to make you rich. I've had mine for a year, and the magic hasn't worn off for me. Now I'm trying to figure out which Sub I'm going to eventually pick up.

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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by jimyritz » Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:23 am

demer03 wrote:My biggest fear with PAM, is all the spot on replicas out there...

Have you ever done a Panerai replica search.... :shock:

I could get screwed handily...
-----

Buy the seller Mike as you know...

do you homework...references,pics, etc...

Mike

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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by mattcantwin » Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:26 am

demer03 wrote:My biggest fear with PAM, is all the spot on replicas out there...

Have you ever done a Panerai replica search.... :shock:

I could get screwed handily...

Hopefully, those bastards making replicas to sell as real :angryfire:


aren't this good yet.


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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by SCM64 » Sat Dec 04, 2010 6:12 am

el presidente wrote:It is :stir:

GO on the other hand, producing about 8.000 watches a year is not :love:
Yep. :cheers:

P.S. Italy has a Navy? :bird:
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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by craniotes » Sat Dec 04, 2010 6:18 am

They're not overpriced for precisely the reason Seth pointed out -- they sell each and every one they make. As for their history, I'm afraid that the author overstated things a bit. Panerai may have made 30 or so watches for use by the Italian navy, all using Rolex movements, but for the most part they concentrated on things like compasses and crap like that. And if it weren't for Sylvester Stallone, they would've faded off into the sunset back in the early nineties, so clearly they were relying on star power too -- a lot more than other brands.

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Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by dshap » Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:23 am

If they were overpriced, they would not be selling every piece they produce, as Prof. Seth explained.

I think the question is more like, are they a good value for the price they command? You can compare them to a tech and quality packed Sinn and say no, they're not. Or you can look at the totally unique design, and say it's worth the money for that reason.
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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by ezcheese » Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:30 am

mattcantwin wrote:
demer03 wrote:Keep the 800....sell the three 300's?

2 watch guy?
The damn Pam! :banghead:


It's got me thinking I can sell some "lesser" watches now.


Considering moving the MM out now, and maybe a few more after that.
Go for it Matt! I got you started, just keep going! :rock:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by dshap » Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:32 am

mattcantwin wrote:
demer03 wrote:Keep the 800....sell the three 300's?

2 watch guy?
The damn Pam! :banghead:


It's got me thinking I can sell some "lesser" watches now.


Considering moving the MM out now, and maybe a few more after that.
I see you've posted something in the sales corner....

Panerai #2, here you come.
-David

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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by Jamie » Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:34 am

Mirror mirror on the wall
Who's the bitchenset watch of all
Panerai I hear you say
Do you see one in my watch box one day

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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by craniotes » Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:23 pm

Jamie wrote:Mirror mirror on the wall
Who's the bitchenset watch of all
Panerai I hear you say
Do you see one in my watch box one day
You're a poet and you didn't even know it.
:raised:

All I know is that I just want my 243 back...
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:tap:

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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by cali kid » Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:52 pm

Worth admission and the last thing Sly did that was worth the price of admission! :thumbsup: Also that 243 has got to be the baddest Panny of all-time! Nothing looks as tough, even the HTFU bracelet doesnt look tough as the 243!! :shrug:
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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by dukerules » Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:55 pm

craniotes wrote:
Jamie wrote:Mirror mirror on the wall
Who's the bitchenset watch of all
Panerai I hear you say
Do you see one in my watch box one day
You're a poet and you didn't even know it.
:raised:

All I know is that I just want my 243 back...
Image

:tap:

Regards,
Adam
:love:

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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by matt.wu » Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:46 pm

The 233 still haunts my dreams... OFTEN.
:htfu:

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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by lilhoody » Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:03 pm

craniotes wrote:
Jamie wrote:Mirror mirror on the wall
Who's the bitchenset watch of all
Panerai I hear you say
Do you see one in my watch box one day
You're a poet and you didn't even know it.
:raised:

All I know is that I just want my 243 back...
Image

:tap:

Regards,
Adam
Adam is that watch so big you had to put it on your right wrist?
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Re: Why Panerai is not overpriced

Post by lilhoody » Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:08 pm

I must express the joy of hanging out with men (and a few women, who are cool like men). What I'm saying is, folk can express themselves here, with out having to sugar coat words and or be PC...because everyone here can take it and gets it, unlike other places.
So, after a few shorts months on the DWC block, I must say, thanks to you all.
Specific to this thread though, its cool that this discussion can be had with out some broke dick dog, ruining it because he can't afford a Panerai.
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