New “Ed White” Speedmaster

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Joeprez
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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by Joeprez » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:03 am

logan2z wrote:I'm surprised nobody has crapped on the 'fauxtina' yet :). I think it actually looks pretty well done here.
Because it looks awesome.

I've been thinking about selling my 3572.50 to track one with a tritium dial or get a 3592.50. For a brief moment I thought I could just buy this new one, but not at that price. Not saying is not worth it, just that I won't pay that much for one.
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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by JBZ » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:22 am

blkgsl wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:52 am
JBZ wrote:
tmw wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:09 am
Couple of thoughts here....
- omega is giving purists what they want (albeit at a price)
- omega is using this opportunity to upscale, and start to target the rolex Daytona. This has been their trend over the last few years and filling the gap in pricing the mid to low 10s where rolex use do sit (the new seamasters are amazing).

I think it looks great. Yes, expensive, and I still think of speedmasters before the 9300s as less than 4K (same way I think seikos should be $300 like the original 6309s). For new customers and most customers, they wont remember this stuff and say its amazing, when can I get it.
Omega may be targeting the Daytona market, and the 321 is a fine, durable, tested movement. But I don't think it's really comparable to the Daytona's 4130 (and I know this is a "new" 321, but the changes made from the original appear to be mostly cosmetic). I'm sure Omega's co-axial chronograph movements are a different story (though they're comparatively a lot thicker than the 4130, but usually come with more complications like a date and/or a moonphase).

That said, this is a cool looking watch. Just too rich for my blood, much like the Daytona. Brands like Longines, Seiko, Hamilton, and Oris are starting to look a lot more appealing these days.
Today’s incoming consumers mostly aren’t movement whores like we are. Otherwise, Lange would be up there with Patek and AP would be lower than Vacheron.
True enough. I have no doubt Omega will sell a ton of these.
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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by tmw » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:23 am

blkgsl wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:52 am
JBZ wrote:
tmw wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:09 am
Couple of thoughts here....
- omega is giving purists what they want (albeit at a price)
- omega is using this opportunity to upscale, and start to target the rolex Daytona. This has been their trend over the last few years and filling the gap in pricing the mid to low 10s where rolex use do sit (the new seamasters are amazing).

I think it looks great. Yes, expensive, and I still think of speedmasters before the 9300s as less than 4K (same way I think seikos should be $300 like the original 6309s). For new customers and most customers, they wont remember this stuff and say its amazing, when can I get it.
Omega may be targeting the Daytona market, and the 321 is a fine, durable, tested movement. But I don't think it's really comparable to the Daytona's 4130 (and I know this is a "new" 321, but the changes made from the original appear to be mostly cosmetic). I'm sure Omega's co-axial chronograph movements are a different story (though they're comparatively a lot thicker than the 4130, but usually come with more complications like a date and/or a moonphase).

That said, this is a cool looking watch. Just too rich for my blood, much like the Daytona. Brands like Longines, Seiko, Hamilton, and Oris are starting to look a lot more appealing these days.
Today’s incoming consumers mostly aren’t movement whores like we are. Otherwise, Lange would be up there with Patek and AP would be lower than Vacheron.
Like its been said....we only care about movements. Most "watch mortals" don't.

Think about it.
- The movement upgrade, and design upgrades make the package even nicer for speedies.
- Omega has easily proven that they can sell speedies direct at list. And do it quickly leaving "money" on the table and creating a secondary market for them - at higher prices. All of the recent desirable speedies have been going after market above list
- Omega is naturally limiting it by the number they produce and distribute - which may artificially make it harder to get. Building a wait list. A want list. A lust list.
- Vintage nostalgia sells. This gives two speedies - the vintage models/looks and the 9300 versions.


Hmm...sound familiar? I wonder what that resembles? Building brand value in some of the same way Rolex is with their SS models. There are many people who debated the speedmaster vs the Daytona. This is an attempt to bring them closer in value.
Stan, don’t you know the first law of physics? Anything that’s fun costs at least eight dollars”
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“To absent friends, lost loves, old gods, and the season of mists; and may each and every one of us always give the devil his due.”
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Floating down canal
It doesn't use numbers or moving hands
It always just says now
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And If I have trouble the warranty said
Breathe In, Breathe Out, Move On

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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by JBZ » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:33 am

^^^I'd quibble with whether this is either a movement or a design upgrade from the modern Speedmaster, but I take the point regarding movements. Most people don't care as long as the watch looks good, keeps decent time, and is durable.

Omega is really lucky they have the Speedmaster - the "first watch worn on the moon" markets itself. So I think it's a wise business move to try and monetize that to the greatest extent possible. Given its pedigree and the way the markets have been moving, the standard Speedy is probably underpriced, but I imagine Omega makes up for that with the various LE's and new models like this one.
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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by blkgsl » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:00 am

Yep, I agree with their long-term vision - it worked for Rolex, it should work for Omega.

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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by jimyritz » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:11 am

I love it but like others too pricey for me.

Here's my question-
you have 13K and you walk into a respective AD, there's a stainless Daytona and this Speedy which one you buying?

I've personally owned 4 different Speedies and at this point all have been sold-

Mike

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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by JP Chestnut » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:21 am

jimyritz wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:11 am
I love it but like others too pricey for me.

Here's my question-
you have 13K and you walk into a respective AD, there's a stainless Daytona and this Speedy which one you buying?

I've personally owned 4 different Speedies and at this point all have been sold-

Mike
Despite the crazy hype the Daytona is a really small watch. I was shocked at how small it is when I got mine. Back when you could actually get one, that size turned a lot of people off.

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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by TSD » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:32 am

JP Chestnut wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:21 am
jimyritz wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:11 am
I love it but like others too pricey for me.

Here's my question-
you have 13K and you walk into a respective AD, there's a stainless Daytona and this Speedy which one you buying?

I've personally owned 4 different Speedies and at this point all have been sold-

Mike
Despite the crazy hype the Daytona is a really small watch. I was shocked at how small it is when I got mine. Back when you could actually get one, that size turned a lot of people off.
That feeling always stopped me from giving the Daytona a chance. I'm sure this 39.7mm case would be the same. The Speedmaster Professional fits me much better.

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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by JP Chestnut » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:44 am

TSD wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:32 am
JP Chestnut wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:21 am
jimyritz wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:11 am
I love it but like others too pricey for me.

Here's my question-
you have 13K and you walk into a respective AD, there's a stainless Daytona and this Speedy which one you buying?

I've personally owned 4 different Speedies and at this point all have been sold-

Mike
Despite the crazy hype the Daytona is a really small watch. I was shocked at how small it is when I got mine. Back when you could actually get one, that size turned a lot of people off.
That feeling always stopped me from giving the Daytona a chance. I'm sure this 39.7mm case would be the same. The Speedmaster Professional fits me much better.
I'm sure this watch would wear larger. The Daytona is small in general with a relatively wide bezel around the dial. it's almost like the 16600 SD in that way. This Omega might be small, but it's going to have a substantially larger dial than the Daytona.

This case is basically same size as the Speedy Pro case without the crown protectors sticking out the side.

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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by JBZ » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:52 am

JP Chestnut wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:21 am
jimyritz wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:11 am
I love it but like others too pricey for me.

Here's my question-
you have 13K and you walk into a respective AD, there's a stainless Daytona and this Speedy which one you buying?

I've personally owned 4 different Speedies and at this point all have been sold-

Mike
Despite the crazy hype the Daytona is a really small watch. I was shocked at how small it is when I got mine. Back when you could actually get one, that size turned a lot of people off.
I wonder if the new ceramic bezel Daytonas appear larger, particularly the black dialed version. It seems like it would based on the pictures I've seen, but I've never seen one IRL.
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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by TSD » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:02 pm

JBZ wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:52 am
JP Chestnut wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:21 am
jimyritz wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:11 am
I love it but like others too pricey for me.

Here's my question-
you have 13K and you walk into a respective AD, there's a stainless Daytona and this Speedy which one you buying?

I've personally owned 4 different Speedies and at this point all have been sold-

Mike
Despite the crazy hype the Daytona is a really small watch. I was shocked at how small it is when I got mine. Back when you could actually get one, that size turned a lot of people off.
I wonder if the new ceramic bezel Daytonas appear larger, particularly the black dialed version. It seems like it would based on the pictures I've seen, but I've never seen one IRL.
I've compared a white dial 116500 and 116520, and both wear small on me.

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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by tmw » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:03 pm

JBZ wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:52 am
JP Chestnut wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:21 am
jimyritz wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:11 am
I love it but like others too pricey for me.

Here's my question-
you have 13K and you walk into a respective AD, there's a stainless Daytona and this Speedy which one you buying?

I've personally owned 4 different Speedies and at this point all have been sold-

Mike
Despite the crazy hype the Daytona is a really small watch. I was shocked at how small it is when I got mine. Back when you could actually get one, that size turned a lot of people off.
I wonder if the new ceramic bezel Daytonas appear larger, particularly the black dialed version. It seems like it would based on the pictures I've seen, but I've never seen one IRL.
This is a big "if" if the AD has a daytona. First off, you probably need to buy a lot from that AD before even thinking about getting on a list for a daytona. Most likely - you will be headed to a speedster in this what if scenario.

The older daytona with a ss bezel was small and did wear small. It was hard to read. I had it and the speedy at the same time. The size was better with the speedy. But the new daytona may make up for all of this.

If I was a rolex and omega AD....the new speedy would keep the customer in the store.

Its probably only a matter of time before a new white dial speedy comes with the 321.
Stan, don’t you know the first law of physics? Anything that’s fun costs at least eight dollars”
-- Eric Cartman

“To absent friends, lost loves, old gods, and the season of mists; and may each and every one of us always give the devil his due.”
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman

I bought a cheap watch from a crazy man
Floating down canal
It doesn't use numbers or moving hands
It always just says now
Now you may be thinking that I was had
But this watch is never wrong
And If I have trouble the warranty said
Breathe In, Breathe Out, Move On

- Jimmy Buffett

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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by JP Chestnut » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:14 pm

JBZ wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:52 am
JP Chestnut wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:21 am
jimyritz wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:11 am
I love it but like others too pricey for me.

Here's my question-
you have 13K and you walk into a respective AD, there's a stainless Daytona and this Speedy which one you buying?

I've personally owned 4 different Speedies and at this point all have been sold-

Mike
Despite the crazy hype the Daytona is a really small watch. I was shocked at how small it is when I got mine. Back when you could actually get one, that size turned a lot of people off.
I wonder if the new ceramic bezel Daytonas appear larger, particularly the black dialed version. It seems like it would based on the pictures I've seen, but I've never seen one IRL.
People claim so, but having seen them all in person they don't. It's just people trying to convince themselves that they want the watch for some reason besides everyone else wanting it.

Rolex is, however, rolling out the fatter case to more versions of the watch. At some point they will probably pork up the SS case as well.

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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by jtbenson » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:26 pm

hoppyjr wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:56 pm
Same case as the 1957 it appears.
yep, and it looks like this will be a great companion candidate for the sm300 coax ;)
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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by JBZ » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:26 pm

tmw wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:03 pm
JBZ wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:52 am
JP Chestnut wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:21 am
jimyritz wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:11 am
I love it but like others too pricey for me.

Here's my question-
you have 13K and you walk into a respective AD, there's a stainless Daytona and this Speedy which one you buying?

I've personally owned 4 different Speedies and at this point all have been sold-

Mike
Despite the crazy hype the Daytona is a really small watch. I was shocked at how small it is when I got mine. Back when you could actually get one, that size turned a lot of people off.
I wonder if the new ceramic bezel Daytonas appear larger, particularly the black dialed version. It seems like it would based on the pictures I've seen, but I've never seen one IRL.
This is a big "if" if the AD has a daytona. First off, you probably need to buy a lot from that AD before even thinking about getting on a list for a daytona. Most likely - you will be headed to a speedster in this what if scenario.

The older daytona with a ss bezel was small and did wear small. It was hard to read. I had it and the speedy at the same time. The size was better with the speedy. But the new daytona may make up for all of this.

If I was a rolex and omega AD....the new speedy would keep the customer in the store.

Its probably only a matter of time before a new white dial speedy comes with the 321.
Legibility is definitely a big issue with the SS bezel Daytonas. The Speedy, OTOH, is incredibly legible.
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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by matt.wu » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:16 am

I’m a movement snob, and even I don’t understand why the 321 is touted as such a big deal in modern watches...
:htfu:

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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by Joeprez » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:36 am

jimyritz wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:11 am
I love it but like others too pricey for me.

Here's my question-
you have 13K and you walk into a respective AD, there's a stainless Daytona and this Speedy which one you buying?

I've personally owned 4 different Speedies and at this point all have been sold-

Mike
Not the Daytona. I've tried the watch (but never owned one) and still do not understand why it costs 10k (used to cost :rolleyes: ). And yes, it even looks small on my wrist.
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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by Joeprez » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:38 am

matt.wu wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:16 am
I’m a movement snob, and even I don’t understand why the 321 is touted as such a big deal in modern watches...
Honestly I don't care about the 321 movement... but love everything else on the watch. Put a 1861 in it, lower the price and I'm buying :)
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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by logan2z » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:08 am

Joeprez wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:38 am
matt.wu wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:16 am
I’m a movement snob, and even I don’t understand why the 321 is touted as such a big deal in modern watches...
Honestly I don't care about the 321 movement... but love everything else on the watch. Put a 1861 in it, lower the price and I'm buying :)
+1

At $5K with an 1861 then that would be very compelling.

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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by matt.wu » Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:38 pm

This watch is a hard sell when you've got the 1957 speedy already available (as others have already mentioned).

IMO, this is near a perfect speedy already.

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The only better one is my modded one I bought.... :shifty:

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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by matt.wu » Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:38 pm

^ and both of these are WELL south of this EW Speedy.
:htfu:

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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by dukerules » Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:54 pm

Regarding the 321, it's the romanticism of the movement that gets the Speedy nerds. It's the original, the one that powered the Speedmasters that did all that cool stuff back in the '60s (the moon landing, Ed White's space walk, Schirra's Sigma 7 trip, and so on). Plus a column wheel is so much cooler than a cam-lever chronograph movement, even if technically it's arguably not a superior movement.

I had an opportunity to put down a deposit on this one, but I abstained. I have three Speedmasters already, and I think my FOIS is a nice enough riff on the pre-Professional Speedmasters for me. When they remake the 105.012, though, I might have to find a way to make that one happen.

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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by Joeprez » Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:54 pm

That 1957 is hot.... Yours as well :grin:


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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by ncstate1201 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:09 pm

JP Chestnut wrote:Looks great, and I'd probably own one. However, I can't get with this "watches as expensive as a car down payment" thing. I'm conditioned to think of Omega as a 3k-4.5k brand and Rolex as a 4.5k-6k brand. I can't believe people are willing to drop five figures on mass market brands like that on the regular.
This is totally the bucket I am in...heck I sold my stainless rolex daytona (no ceramic bezel) for 14k not that long ago. They are different watches I get it, but the only speedmaster I would pay this much for would probably be the original it seems like you can still find the original ed white for less.

I do like it but see it as a mass market brand also. I would pay 4k for this one...maybe 5k.

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Re: New “Ed White” Speedmaster

Post by Cabaiguan » Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:58 pm

jimyritz wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:11 am
I love it but like others too pricey for me.

Here's my question-
you have 13K and you walk into a respective AD, there's a stainless Daytona and this Speedy which one you buying?

I've personally owned 4 different Speedies and at this point all have been sold-

Mike
Problem is, your scenario doesn’t exist. There is no Daytona in the case. But...that Speedy sure does look purdy. Omega will sell a ton of these at the expense of Rolex. JMHO.
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