Doxa is in real trouble

Discussion of Doxa watches.
User avatar
kempoman
Posts: 2517
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:21 pm
Location: Borneo Island

Doxa is in real trouble

Post by kempoman » Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:00 pm

Watch collector since 1989

User avatar
demer03
Current Forecast: Vintage Doxa
Posts: 18675
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:41 pm
Name: Mike the Doxa Ho
Location: Lake Michigami

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by demer03 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:27 am

Lol. More knock off stuff.
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams
The islands and bays are for sportsmen

Image

ncstate1201
Posts: 751
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:20 pm
Name: Geoff B
Location: Apex, NC

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by ncstate1201 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:20 am

I have seen those man they are inexpensive too... anyone have one?

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


User avatar
dnslater
Posts: 6514
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:52 pm
Name: Nick
Location: Indiana, USA

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by dnslater » Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:06 am

demer03 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:27 am
Lol. More knock off stuff.
Yep, I'll never not find these companies despicable.

User avatar
JP Chestnut
Posts: 17617
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 10:40 am
Name: Jacob
Location: Ithaca, NY USA

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by JP Chestnut » Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:10 am

I only looked briefly and didn’t realize that wasn’t a doxa. That really sucks.

User avatar
toxicavenger
President Tranny
Posts: 47152
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:25 am
Name: HeadDIK
Location: Colorado Springs

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by toxicavenger » Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:26 am

More butt-fuckery.

User avatar
Ryeguy
Posts: 4829
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:03 pm
Name: Chris
Location: Rye

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by Ryeguy » Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:54 am

If nothing else, it demonstrates how flexible these guys are in manufacturing and how quickly they can produce small quantity batches of a finished product.

FlyingDoctor on WUS took apart one of those Ti Maranez "homages" and honestly, the manufacturing looked really decent. Ti watch case and bezel. Ti crown with a steel core. Threaded steel crown tube. Ti BOR bracelet with independent beads and screw pins. Vitron seals at the case back with a compression spring.

Yes, the design is a rip off, but you really can't look down on the manufacturing quality - especially when you consider this is a $350 +/- watch.

My opinion (which I understand is worth practically nothing) is brands such as Doxa which make a handful of unique designs and are sold at near luxury prices ($2K - $5K) are really at risk due to the ability for others to copy the design at a fraction of the price at a decent (arguably very similar) quality.

Add in the fact that Doxa is a fairly "under the radar" brand ("Doxa" as a brand is as meaningless as "Maranez" to the average non-WIS person) and I think there is significant risk for them.

FWIW, I'd put Squale in the same boat. If Maranez starts popping out 50ATMOS homages tomorrow, Squale is equally screwed.

User avatar
JP Chestnut
Posts: 17617
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 10:40 am
Name: Jacob
Location: Ithaca, NY USA

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by JP Chestnut » Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:56 am

^^ I had assumed that these were all made from parts produced in the same Chinese factories that doxa uses.

User avatar
Ryeguy
Posts: 4829
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:03 pm
Name: Chris
Location: Rye

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by Ryeguy » Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:21 am

JP Chestnut wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:56 am
^^ I had assumed that these were all made from parts produced in the same Chinese factories that doxa uses.
Could be a possibility, or the CAD files somehow got emailed to the guys down the street.

FlyingDoctor is a bit of a Doxa enthusiast (to say the least) and did a pretty in-depth tear-down of one of those Maranez homages and compared it to some authentic Doxa's.

His conclusion was the Maranez is closer to the older Synchron era 300 models due to the case back thickness and some other attributes that I can't remember. Also, the interior machining is different as the Maranez is designed around the Seiko NH35 movement, not the ETA 2824-2 / Sellita. You cannot simply drop a Doxa dial and ETA 2824 into the Maranez case. It would not line up internally (unlike the Ginault case, for example, which reportedly could accept a Rolex 3135).

Bottom line is the Maranez is close, but not an exact match to the modern Doxa .

As a side note, FlyingDoctor seems to have become somewhat (and surprisingly to me) cozy with Maranez, buying multiple watches from them and allowing them to build and sell his "IrishStar" dial design.

I would have expected a more negative perspective on Doxa homages from such an enthusiast, but it's been quite the opposite.

User avatar
gr8sw
Posts: 4416
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:30 pm
Name: Pedro
Location: under a palm tree

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by gr8sw » Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:39 pm

having an excellent quality 'homage' available for a few hundred bucks can't be good for Doxa...

99.9% wouldn't know a Doxa from a Seestern from a Maranez
Image

User avatar
Wario406
Posts: 832
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:27 am
Name: Mike
Location: Colofreakinrado

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by Wario406 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:54 pm

As some of you may remember - I struggled (felt dirty) with the Seestern 300T homage that I got awhile back. It was a DAMN NICE watch for just over $200, and to be very frank - it is a really nice watch that isn’t 10x less quality than the Doxa. I was hung up on wanting the original and have no regrets paying extra for a real Doxa... but many of the homages are excellent replicas with features I wish my Doxa had, like drilled lugs.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

User avatar
toxicavenger
President Tranny
Posts: 47152
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:25 am
Name: HeadDIK
Location: Colorado Springs

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by toxicavenger » Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:10 pm

Ryeguy wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:21 am
I would have expected a more negative perspective on Doxa homages from such an enthusiast, but it's been quite the opposite.
That's not saying much when the guy was actually having replica parts made for vintage Doxa's.

He seems to like hating on Doxa since the basement dudes got sent packing.

User avatar
tattoo chef
<Will Skull for Food>
Posts: 5271
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:03 pm
Name: Don

Doxa is in real trouble

Post by tattoo chef » Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:19 pm

toxicavenger wrote:
Ryeguy wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:21 am
I would have expected a more negative perspective on Doxa homages from such an enthusiast, but it's been quite the opposite.
That's not saying much when the guy was actually having replica parts made for vintage Doxa's.

He seems to like hating on Doxa since the basement dudes got sent packing.
He’s the one who did the 50 years of Doxa book right? Peter Millar?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

User avatar
aikiman44
Tiki Extraordinaire
Posts: 9022
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:50 am
Name: J

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by aikiman44 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:53 pm

He’s the one.
"We'd better synchronize our watches."

User avatar
Jeep99dad
Grand-père
Posts: 30086
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:07 am
Name: Brice
Location: FlipVille, SC

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by Jeep99dad » Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:22 pm

I got one of their Doxa sub copy to check the bracelet, which doesn’t fit my Doxa.
I’ve never worn it and it’s still in the box. I can’t wear it. It’s just too much of a copy.
Merde Alors! Et Vive Les Francais! :)

User avatar
toxicavenger
President Tranny
Posts: 47152
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:25 am
Name: HeadDIK
Location: Colorado Springs

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by toxicavenger » Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:12 pm

tattoo chef wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:19 pm
toxicavenger wrote:
Ryeguy wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:21 am
I would have expected a more negative perspective on Doxa homages from such an enthusiast, but it's been quite the opposite.
That's not saying much when the guy was actually having replica parts made for vintage Doxa's.

He seems to like hating on Doxa since the basement dudes got sent packing.
He’s the one who did the 50 years of Doxa book right? Peter Millar?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=72045&p=1387845&hi ... a#p1387845

User avatar
Wario406
Posts: 832
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:27 am
Name: Mike
Location: Colofreakinrado

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by Wario406 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:55 pm

Jeep99dad wrote:I got one of their Doxa sub copy to check the bracelet, which doesn’t fit my Doxa.
I’ve never worn it and it’s still in the box. I can’t wear it. It’s just too much of a copy.
What does that mean? Looks too much or too little like the Doxa?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
Ryeguy
Posts: 4829
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:03 pm
Name: Chris
Location: Rye

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by Ryeguy » Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:26 am

Jeep99dad wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:22 pm
I got one of their Doxa sub copy to check the bracelet, which doesn’t fit my Doxa.
I’ve never worn it and it’s still in the box. I can’t wear it. It’s just too much of a copy.
I heard you can purchase end links from Doxa. I think they are $25 per piece.

Folks seem to do this to make aftermarket BOR bracelets fit the 300T watch head.

I completely respect anyone’s opinion regarding homages / copies. My opinion was purely focused on manufacturing quality which seems to be there.

I bought one to use the bracelet on my Synchron Military and I can’t find much to fault from a manufacturing quality perspective.

User avatar
Ryeguy
Posts: 4829
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:03 pm
Name: Chris
Location: Rye

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by Ryeguy » Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:45 am

toxicavenger wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:10 pm
Ryeguy wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:21 am
I would have expected a more negative perspective on Doxa homages from such an enthusiast, but it's been quite the opposite.
That's not saying much when the guy was actually having replica parts made for vintage Doxa's.

He seems to like hating on Doxa since the basement dudes got sent packing.
I don’t know the details of the replica parts scenario, but I have a hard time faulting a guy if he’s doing this to bring back some non-working vintage watch with impossible to find replacement parts.

I think someone could find some issue with his “IrishStar” dial as it has a Doxa logo and is clearly not a Doxa part. That said, he did it for himself and isn’t out there selling “IrishStar” dials to the public.

I tend to agree more with the “basement dudes” theory. He is restrained in what he says, but you can tell he is not pleased with the company’s current management.

He isn’t exactly endorsing Maranez watches, but he is reviewing them and comparing them openly against his Doxa collection (where they come out in a positive position).

I have to think Maranez’s success is selling Doxa homages has a fair amount to do with these reviews (versus him being more like our Moke and finding them completely distasteful and not worth even discussing).

User avatar
aikiman44
Tiki Extraordinaire
Posts: 9022
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:50 am
Name: J

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by aikiman44 » Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:23 am

I would consider homages to watches currently in production basically stealing.
If a watch is no longer made, then copy away. Same as with any product. Whole product lines have been destroyed by cheap copies.
"We'd better synchronize our watches."

User avatar
JP Chestnut
Posts: 17617
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 10:40 am
Name: Jacob
Location: Ithaca, NY USA

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by JP Chestnut » Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:30 am

aikiman44 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:23 am
I would consider homages to watches currently in production basically stealing.
If a watch is no longer made, then copy away. Same as with any product. Whole product lines have been destroyed by cheap copies.
That’s a pretty reasonable POV. I’m not sure I’d wear a homage milsub, but I’d be a not more likely to do so than I would to wear a homage 16610.

User avatar
Jeep99dad
Grand-père
Posts: 30086
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:07 am
Name: Brice
Location: FlipVille, SC

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by Jeep99dad » Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:42 am

Wario406 wrote:
Jeep99dad wrote:I got one of their Doxa sub copy to check the bracelet, which doesn’t fit my Doxa.
I’ve never worn it and it’s still in the box. I can’t wear it. It’s just too much of a copy.
What does that mean? Looks too much or too little like the Doxa?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Too much of a copy means it looks too much like a Doxa
Merde Alors! Et Vive Les Francais! :)

User avatar
pbj204
Posts: 2227
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:47 am
Name: Paul
Location: New York

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by pbj204 » Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:47 am

aikiman44 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:23 am
I would consider homages to watches currently in production basically stealing.
If a watch is no longer made, then copy away. Same as with any product. Whole product lines have been destroyed by cheap copies.
Contrarians might say that Doxa is a homage of Doxa. Doxa shut down in 1980 (according to wikipedia). The Jenny family acquired the name in 1997. Then they paid a manufacturer in China to make the old watches again.

It's not the same people, or the same equipment, or the same company as the original. The Jenny family didn't design the watches or add intellectual property.

I would certainly never wear a homage to any Rolex, Omega, etc. (their designs and their intellectual property), but I'm not sure I'd care so much about the Jennys.

User avatar
tattoo chef
<Will Skull for Food>
Posts: 5271
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:03 pm
Name: Don

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by tattoo chef » Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:56 am

pbj204 wrote:
aikiman44 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:23 am
I would consider homages to watches currently in production basically stealing.
If a watch is no longer made, then copy away. Same as with any product. Whole product lines have been destroyed by cheap copies.
Contrarians might say that Doxa is a homage of Doxa. Doxa shut down in 1980 (according to wikipedia). The Jenny family acquired the name in 1997. Then they paid a manufacturer in China to make the old watches again.

It's not the same people, or the same equipment, or the same company as the original. The Jenny family didn't design the watches or add intellectual property.

I would certainly never wear a homage to any Rolex, Omega, etc. (their designs and their intellectual property), but I'm not sure I'd care so much about the Jennys.
I mean, you can look at a lot of watch brands in that way if you really want to.
Breitling isn’t the same company from when it started either.

The factory was shut down in 1978, the name was bought in 79. In 2017 and 2018 it was sold to CVC Capital Partners, an American Investment Firm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

User avatar
hoppyjr
HJ
Posts: 37092
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:05 am
Name: Hoppy

Re: Doxa is in real trouble

Post by hoppyjr » Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:59 am

aikiman44 wrote:I would consider homages to watches currently in production basically stealing.
If a watch is no longer made, then copy away. Same as with any product. Whole product lines have been destroyed by cheap copies.
I agree.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests