Sinn U1 or Kobold Arctic Diver?

[GregNYC]

Sorry if this is a newbie question - I never really thought of these style divers till, yup, you guessed it, the Red Bar GTG! I think there was one of each piece there, but I was focused on other things.

What are your thoughts on, say.....

== Workmanship
== Lume
== Heft
== Timekeeping
== Comfort
== Bezel lume and action
== Strap/bracelet?

[andy tims]

Not had a Kobold, but although it's 4 x the price, I very much doubt it's even 1.5x the watch the U1 is.

[SCM64]

Known U1 koolaid drinker here, so factor that in.

Both are excellent pieces, of very good quality. IMHO though, not sure what the Kobold brings to the table to account for the price difference. Much of what we all like in our watches is the aesthetics, and that value can only be assessed by the purchaser.

If both work for your budget, hard to make a bad choice. The U1 lume is good, not great being C1, but that bright white looks awesome during the day. Plus you have the submarine steel (several good Sub steel threads around here) and the tegimented bezel. Some don't care for the outer AR on the U1, I find it a big plus. The bracelet is also very well made and not your standard fare.

[FrankinCA]

alot of watch for the money.

I like Kobolds, but they are pricey. Soarway is nice, but I prefer the SEAL.

I've handled both U1 and Soarway, I would prefer a U1.

F

[mattcantwin]

I never really thought of these style divers till, yup, you guessed it, the Red Bar GTG!...

Another RED BAR "victim".


Probably the reason I now own this.











Guess I'll keep going!



ps I would go for the U1 because I'm a Lego fan and "need" a date complication.

[GregNYC]

Thanks for the quick responses. Not as though I'm gonna run out and buy today . Yes, I forgot to mention the price/value factor. How is the U1's bezel action?

[GregNYC]

Another RED BAR "victim".

Yeah! That one short GTG (I stayed only 45 mins) did more damage than many years of Panerai GTGs! Go figure!

[SCM64]

U1 bezel action is like the lume, good not great. Feels a little "plastic" y, but gets the job done. Not a minus, but not a huge plus. I also forgot to mention that I think it is generally accepted, that it wears a tick smaller than it's specs would indicate, and is very comfy whether on bracelet, rubber, Zulu or even leather. They can also be purchased easily used, and then flipped at minimal to no loss if it doesn't float your boat.

IMHO it's about as no brainer a watch to try as there is. A modern day classic.

We have several folks here who know a lot more about Kobolds that I'm sure will add some balance.


* just a reminder, I am a fanboi of all things Sinn.

[Seth]

The U1 just doesn't appeal to me. There are a lot of reasons to not buy a Kobold, but the quality of the build isn't one of them. They're solid, well built divers.

As for pricing, if you're buying new, the Kobold is double. If you're renting one off the ads, the Kobold will be about $2k and the U1 around $1200. Both seem to hold those numbers pretty consistently.

[SCM64]

If you want to learn more about Sub steel, this is a good thread.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=6502&hilit=Amagnetic

[rockmastermike]

I have not handled a Kobold, I voted with my wallet and since we've seen U1 on steel and leather, here is mine w/ Zulu

[jad3703]

I own an AD and have owned a U1.

Never buy new from KWC now-a-days; the new business model makes them simply too expensive for what you get (ie. never pay retail is my motto). Used ADs in decent shape seem to be going for between $1,700 and $2,300. I like my AD and it is a keeper; KWC got the build-quality, dimensions / proportions and aesthetics right on this one. Customer service is also very good with KWC. But ... there is no OEM bracelet available and since I am a big bracelet guy, that is a detractor that I have really only partially addressed with an after-market bracelet.

As for the U1, loved it. Great watch, virtually indestructible, aesthetically great and the OEM bracelet just makes a great watch even better. They can be had for a substantially lower price used on the watch-boards, if you're patient. Sinn has decent customer service, although a lot of the servicing needs to go back to Germany (especially anything AR-filled, I think).

If I had to decide between the two now, I would go for the U1 and bracelet only because you get as much watch, if not more, with an OEM bracelet that changes the look and feel completely and gives you dress-up / dress-down options. I would then save up for a decent used Seal or AD.

And this is all from an avowed Kobold kool-aid drinker.

James

[andrema]

U1 bezel action is like the lume, good not great. Feels a little "plastic" y, but gets the job done. Not a minus, but not a huge plus. I also forgot to mention that I think it is generally accepted, that it wears a tick smaller than it's specs would indicate, and is very comfy whether on bracelet, rubber, Zulu or even leather. They can also be purchased easily used, and then flipped at minimal to no loss if it doesn't float your boat.

IMHO it's about as no brainer a watch to try as there is. A modern day classic.

We have several folks here who know a lot more about Kobolds that I'm sure will add some balance.


* just a reminder, I am a fanboi of all things Sinn.

I agree on the size, here is a picture vs the 42mm Stowa Seatime...



And a lume picture....



And a picture on rubber...



BTW - I have never handled a Kobold, but I did own a Dievas Vortex...isn't that basically the same?

[SCM64]

Hey Mark, would you agree that while the U1 wears a bit smaller than spec, the Seatime seems to wears a bit larger than spec? That's my impression at least. U1 feels more like 43mm, and the Seatime feels 43mm+.

[andrema]

Hey Mark, would you agree that while the U1 wears a bit smaller than spec, the Seatime seems to wears a bit larger than spec? That's my impression at least. U1 feels more like 43mm, and the Seatime feels 43mm+.

I absolutely agree.

The U1 definitely wears smaller than my Seatime. I believe that it is due to the crown positon and crown guards on the Stowa. When I bought it, I expected it to be around the same size as my Fortis B-42, but it wears much smaller!

Here is another photo of the U1 and Seatime:

[jimyritz]

At $1750 BNIB on bracelet...one of the best watches around...

Like the AD but have to buy it pre-owned.............

I would also think the watches would wear differently--
Sinn short lugs(51MM lug to lug) and Kobold just
the opposite--long lugs (55MM lug to lug)..............

[dukerules]

At $1750 BNIB on bracelet...one of the best watches around...

Like the AD but have to buy it pre-owned.............

I would also think the watches would wear differently--
Sinn short lugs(51MM lug to lug) and Kobold just
the opposite--long lugs (55MM lug to lug)..............

Good point. I think the U1 is an "everyman" 44mm watch, the AD not as much. I like the AD a lot, and think it is gorgeous in its stark simplicity. That said, it's really hard to fault the U1. The value for the money is exceptional, and it makes an excellent do-anything, beater-type watch.

[GGD]

Not had a Kobold, but although it's 4 x the price, I very much doubt it's even 1.5x the watch the U1 is.

Steady on there mate.... them's fighting words, especially when you haven't owned a Kobold




I'll throw my 2 cents in, and freely admit my Kobold bias up front.... I love my AD Tac, I purchased it new & direct from KWC (admittedly at the discounted intro price) and have worn it almost everyday since I got it (over 12 months ago now).

It is probably the best "quality" I've ever seen in a watch. It is almost bullet-proof and gets worn with absolutely no regard for it's safety.

Whilst some people argue that the long lugs mean it doesn't wear well on smaller wrists I seem to have found it to be the opposite (especially on zulu straps). The longer lugs, and flat caseback mean that is sits quite low & flat along the top of the wrist and is not as top heavy as some divers I've worn with shorter lug-to-lug measurements.

For example I have another Fricker diver that has very similar specs to the U1.... it is a lot more "top heavy" and I find it to not wear as comfortably as the AD does.

If it's of any help to you I can take some comparison pics of the two side-by-side if you want?

As mentioned above, the AD does not have a bracelet so if that's something you like then the Sinn is probably the more suitable option.

If on the other hand you are a strap addict like me (particularly zulu straps) then the Kobold is a must. The long lugs and the 24mm size means it looks sensational on nearly all leather straps etc.

I'm sure they're both great watches, but for me the AD is a beast and without peer in my collection

[YOHOHO]

The workmanship on my first 3 AD's was pretty crappy, but they have probably worked out those bugs by now.

I'd get the Sinn...partly because I told Brian that it would be over my dead body before I bought another Kobold...

[kempoman]

Sinn is more well built than Kobold I own a EZM 6 and she is indestructible. Also, i own 3 Kobolds and they all are keepers. Kobold is more aesthetic than Sinn MHO. I will choose Kobold LSD (Large Soarway Diver) to AD if you manage to find one.

Kempoman

[smalls]

Have only had the U1 but man did it leave an impression. The watch feels like it should cost twice what it does and is super smooth in the winding department. Would still have mine if I wasn't gunning for an Omega. If I get another one I'm going to have to try it on the bracelet. The rubber was super nice but that clasp was HUGE!

[GGD]

Further to the last, I've had a think about your specific questions and these are my thoughts on the AD FWIW.....

Workmanship = Awesome! Have not had any QC issues & I have definately not babied mine in the slightest.

Lume = Excellent. It's not Seiko lume but it's pretty damn bright, and it's blue which I really like.

Heft = You know it's there. Definately a heavy watch, but wears very comfortably because of the long lugs.

Timekeeping = Excellent. No issues with mine anyway.

Comfort = Great. Very comfortable on my 6.5" wrist, especially on a zulu strap & also when I wear it consistently day after day. If I swap around between the AD and a smaller / lighter watch it will sometimes bug me for a bit until I get used to it again (if that makes sense).

Bezel lume and action = No bezel lume on the AD. Bezel action is very tight and positive. Nice solid 60 clicks, and the edge is very sharp & easy to grip (even with gloves).

Strap/bracelet? No bracelet option. I tried the custom KWC rubber strap and whilst it looked great on the watch it didn't fit me right. The rubber kind of bulged out away from the watch head and left a weird gap against my wrist. As mentioned in my previous post I love it on zulu straps and leather straps (which is becoming increasingly addictive and expensive)

[YOHOHO]

I will choose Kobold LSD (Large Soarway Diver) to AD if you manage to find one.

+1

[matt.wu]

I love the U1, but hate the date window. Believe it or not, it's the reason I keep selling the damn thing. If they made a more refined date window, or even excluded it, I'd buy one right away.

Thing looks like the date window in my cheapo Fossil.

[drster]

models. I can't figure out what the attraction is for Kobold. I think it's all marketing. I look at these watches objectively (I think) and Kobold makes a decent watch. But not for the money. I also think they are lacking in quality. The case finishing is subpar imo. I've seen bezels that don't line up and little imperfections in the metal finish on new pieces. The bezel on the U1 is not the best but neither are those on Kobold watches. I would only buy a Kobold if I got a great deal on it and then I would flip it. The ones I've had all came in trades. Here are a few examples: