Seestern... why do I feel dirty?!

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Wario406
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Seestern... why do I feel dirty?!

Post by Wario406 » Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:50 pm

As some of you know (and I appreciate your input!) - I was in the market for 3 Doxa 300T subs... Shortly after starting my search, I found two things. 1.) I can order 300T's from Doxa direct and get them really fast from them. And, 2) I wasn't sure that I really wanted a 300T because I was afraid they'd it is too small on my wrist. I felt this way after I saw the one that I ordered and received (on a orange strap) for my son - so I ordered a Seestern to see if I'd like the way a 300T would look and feel on my wrist. I received the Seestern and to be very honest Im blown away at the quality of the Seestern homage. Comparing the Seestern to the Doxa I see the following items that are not as good or different - the color of the Seestern is more "red" than the Doxa. The font on the Seestern face is not as pronounced or as sharp as the Doxa. The polishing on the case and bezel on the Seestern is not as fine as on the Doxa. The items that I continue to be impressed by are - the quality of the Seestern is incredibly great! The SS case, case back, bezel, and bracelet are all incredible for a $200 watch! The heavy AR on the crystal is awesome. The Seestern is really a pretty ridiculously great watch. Drilled lugs, screw down crown, nice movement with hacking, incredible fit and finish... But, as an owner of some nice mid-range watches I honestly feel a little dirty wearing it because it's not a Doxa and it's literally 1/10th the cost in spite of the fact that its a VERY SUBSTANTIAL watch. What are your thoughts? I truly dont know how I feel about this watch other than it's an awesome piece for $200. I want to sell it and get a real 300T - but, is the Doxa worth 10X the cost?!
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Wario406
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Re: Seestern... what do I feel dirty?!

Post by Wario406 » Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:55 pm

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Re: Seestern... what do I feel dirty?!

Post by snootydog » Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:51 pm

Looks good too me :thumbsup:
In my opinion Doxa are way overpriced and I'd definitely not buy new. I already have two Doxa watches and love them both and really want a yellow dial one. Then I discovered Maranez, their Doxa lookalike seems OK, I nearly ordered one but up popped Tactical Frog with their version, also looks good. To add to the confusion I then discover Seestern and their version is cheap as chips, you can't go wrong. The guys here have different views on them from ripoff to nice. My view is they are a copy but quality and price is brilliant as you've found out yourself. Enjoy it.
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Bob1035
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Re: Seestern... what do I feel dirty?!

Post by Bob1035 » Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:48 am

I'm very Doxa curious, but not to the point I want to drop thousands on something I can't try on, so I am tempted by the homages/copies/whatever as a "mock up". I'm torn though as they are such close replicas, it almost gives me that icky feeling....

Either way, I'm glad to hear they are quality pieces!

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Re: Seestern... what do I feel dirty?!

Post by Ryeguy » Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:32 am

I bought a Maranez for the BOR bracelet to use on my Synchron Military.

To be honest, I was very impressed with the quality of the Maranez for $300. The bezel action is crisp and everything lines up as it should. Lume is decent and the dial printing is crisp. Chinese manufactured micros have come a long way.

I actually preferred the old Maranez bezel with the 12 hour / elapsed time engraving over the newer “no deco” / Doxa copies. I could see myself actually using the 12 hour insert, but I’ll never use the no decompression table. In this regard I felt the Maranez was actually an improvement over the Doxa.

I guess I’m in the “buy what you like, wear what you like” camp. People called the Synchron Military a Doxa rip off too.

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Re: Seestern... what do I feel dirty?!

Post by DaveT » Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:03 am

I haven't tried the Seestern but I have had a few of the Maranez watches. I was very impressed with everything about the watch and for +/- $300 you can't go wrong.

My $.02 would be if you feel dirty about it, take a shower and enjoy the watch! :lol:

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Re: Seestern... what do I feel dirty?!

Post by Ryeguy » Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:46 am

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This is the set up I made for my daughter after I stole the bracelet for my Synchron.

I polished the outer bezel ring Doxa style then painted the 1 - 12 markers turquoise to match the dial. I mounted it on a cheap color matching ISO style strap.

My daughter loves it.
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Re: Seestern... what do I feel dirty?!

Post by OrangeSport » Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:39 am

I had similar doubts for ages before I got my Steinhart (and still do to be honest). I think I worry about what others think. I'm happy the Steinhart isn't a replica/fake due to several design differences and the name etc, but I still worry about it sometimes.

But, another question is why didn't you just try your son's to see how it fitted instead of spending money?? :lol:

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Seestern... what do I feel dirty?!

Post by Wario406 » Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:38 am

OrangeSport wrote:I had similar doubts for ages before I got my Steinhart (and still do to be honest). I think I worry about what others think. I'm happy the Steinhart isn't a replica/fake due to several design differences and the name etc, but I still worry about it sometimes.

But, another question is why didn't you just try your son's to see how it fitted instead of spending money?? :lol:
His is a 30th birthday gift. I did not want to be the one to scratch it. It’s bad enough I unboxed it!

I REALLY APPRECIATE everyone’s input!!!


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Seestern... why do I feel dirty?!

Post by Wario406 » Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:18 am

Bob1035 wrote:I'm very Doxa curious, but not to the point I want to drop thousands on something I can't try on, so I am tempted by the homages/copies/whatever as a "mock up". I'm torn though as they are such close replicas, it almost gives me that icky feeling....

Either way, I'm glad to hear they are quality pieces!
That’s exactly why I bought my Seestern- but now that I’ve decided that I like the look on my wrist - what do I do? I’m leaning heavily on selling it on Reddit for less than I paid for it and chalking that up to a “rental fee”. And, I’d say the $50 I’d lose was worth it - but dang, it’s a really nice watch the way it sits…


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Re: Seestern... what do I feel dirty?!

Post by Selym » Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:00 am

Ryeguy wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:46 am
3D500701-83FC-44F3-8DBF-5DA2368672BC.jpeg

This is the set up I made for my daughter after I stole the bracelet for my Synchron.

I polished the outer bezel ring Doxa style then painted the 1 - 12 markers turquoise to match the dial. I mounted it on a cheap color matching ISO style strap.

My daughter loves it.
Nice work on that bezel! :salute:

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Re: Seestern... why do I feel dirty?!

Post by hoppyjr » Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:15 am

I’m not trying to Nishant any of this, but….. would we feel the same about a Panerai copy or Rolex clone like Ginault?

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Re: Seestern... why do I feel dirty?!

Post by logan2z » Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:23 am

Wario406 wrote:
Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:50 pm
is the Doxa worth 10X the cost?!
It is if you actually enjoy wearing it.

I honestly don't see the point in owning the Seestern if it makes you feel 'dirty'. The fact that it's 1/10 the cost of the Doxa and is good quality for the price doesn't seem to be trumping the fact that you know you're wearing a knock-off and it's bugging you. If the Doxa isn't worth the money to you then sell the Seestern and buy something that you feel good about wearing. The Seestern obviously isn't it.

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Re: Seestern... why do I feel dirty?!

Post by logan2z » Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:31 am

hoppyjr wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:15 am
I’m not trying to Nishant any of this, but….. would we feel the same about a Panerai copy or Rolex clone like Ginault?
I feel the same way about all of them: they're making money ripping off the IP of others.

If you want to start a micro-brand then more power to you. But put away the tracing paper and design your own frigging watch.

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Re: Seestern... why do I feel dirty?!

Post by HapaHapa » Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:31 am

hoppyjr wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:15 am
I’m not trying to Nishant any of this, but….. would we feel the same about a Panerai copy or Rolex clone like Ginault?
Design patent only lasts 15 years. Besides, something has to break when the item is overpriced by 5x to 10x.

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Re: Seestern... why do I feel dirty?!

Post by logan2z » Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:22 pm

HapaHapa wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:31 am
hoppyjr wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:15 am
I’m not trying to Nishant any of this, but….. would we feel the same about a Panerai copy or Rolex clone like Ginault?
Design patent only lasts 15 years.
True, but making an exact replica of someone else's design - that's still in production - reeks of laziness and is nothing more than an attempt to cash in on another's work. A design that's inspired by an existing design? Ok. Buying the assets to a defunct company and resurrecting its designs.? Cool. But making a 1:1 copy of a design that isn't yours and that is still in production by the original company is a no-go in my book - patent infringing or not.

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Re: Seestern... why do I feel dirty?!

Post by HapaHapa » Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:56 pm

Almost none of these similar products are exact replicas. I agree an exact replica is shady, but this Doxa example isn't that.

A near replica for Rolex I'm Ok with that. Rolex is nothing but a bag of dicks with their $30k gray market antics. Specific to Rolex though. They piss me off.
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Re: Seestern... why do I feel dirty?!

Post by logan2z » Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:15 pm

HapaHapa wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:56 pm
I agree an exact replica is shady, but this Doxa example isn't that.
Not 100% identical, but I think if the design patent was still in effect Doxa would have a very strong infringement case using the 'ordinary observer' test.

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Re: Seestern... why do I feel dirty?!

Post by Chocodove » Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:28 pm

They are probably even made in the same factory.
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Re: Seestern... why do I feel dirty?!

Post by HapaHapa » Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:48 pm

Chocodove wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:28 pm
They are probably even made in the same factory.
Damn I hadn’t looked that close. It’s not the Maranez “similar” design. I agree probably off the same production line. But I still feel like Doxa is ripping us off.

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Re: Seestern... why do I feel dirty?!

Post by Wario406 » Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:27 pm

HapaHapa wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:48 pm
Chocodove wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:28 pm
They are probably even made in the same factory.
Damn I hadn’t looked that close. It’s not the Maranez “similar” design. I agree probably off the same production line. But I still feel like Doxa is ripping us off.

But, who’s to judge? What the market will bear is the going price for the Doxa, right? I felt the same way when I got my “b” pilot and got the Laco for the same reason. That’s just me. The Seestern is going up for sale at $50 off. I’ll get the D-300t later in the spring. Anyone who wants it should PM me ;-).

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Re: Seestern... why do I feel dirty?!

Post by Bob1035 » Mon Feb 07, 2022 2:49 am

Chocodove wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:28 pm
They are probably even made in the same factory.
I think flyingdoc or whatever his name is, the guy who wrote the book(s) on doxas, posted some advertising from a large Asian watch maker that features Doxa cases. The context was the old "Swiss made" discussion, but I think it leads credence to the "same factory" idea.

Happens in a lot of industries, I'm a big MTN biker and there are tons of examples are damn near the exact same bike frame having a huge cost difference depending on the brand that's printed on it, even though they both come from the same city in Taiwan, etc

Why am I mentioning this? No real reason, but I feel like DWC is a safe place to share thoughts.

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Re: Seestern... why do I feel dirty?!

Post by Ryeguy » Mon Feb 07, 2022 3:40 am

FWIW, when I got my Maranez, the shipping documents listed the selling company as “Smart Asian” with a specific address in Hong Kong.

After a bit of digging, I found a connection to Zixen (a previously well regarded, now defunct, micro-brand).

I’m guessing the factory that makes Maranez also makes watches for a number of micros out there.

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Re: Seestern... why do I feel dirty?!

Post by dnslater » Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:19 am

HapaHapa wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:48 pm
Chocodove wrote:
Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:28 pm
They are probably even made in the same factory.
Damn I hadn’t looked that close. It’s not the Maranez “similar” design. I agree probably off the same production line. But I still feel like Doxa is ripping us off.
Ripping you off? They own the IP/design and can charge what they want. You aren't forced to buy and Doxa is in now way tricking you with their pricing, so they aren't ripping you off. Pricing on all of this man-jewelry is based on the market, and not necessarily the production cost anyway...

Plenty of watches out there that are iconic/original designs for $200 from Seiko, Citizen, Vostok and many others.

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Re: Seestern... why do I feel dirty?!

Post by Ryeguy » Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:37 am

IMO, I want to wear a watch that I like. If the Seestern or Maranez makes you feel "dirty", then sell it. If it makes you feel happy and you like it, then keep it.

Life is too short to listen to other people's opinions about something as inconsequential as a watch - especially here. We are all watch nerds and love to debate this stuff. Wear what makes you happy.

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