Timepiece Gentleman

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General watch talk.
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Chocodove
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Timepiece Gentleman

Post by Chocodove » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:00 am

I never watch/follow stuff like this on YT, but I couldn’t ignore all the threads going on in the watch world the last few days. Seems rather sordid if true.

https://www.watchcollectinglifestyle.co ... -inventory
- Todd

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mfxr
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by mfxr » Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:19 am

I watched a couple of their YouTube episodes, and honestly not surprised something like this happened.
They always seemed disorganised for a "high dollar" business and had a shady vibe. Cash and watches flying everywhere.
Interesting to see what the real story is..

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Ryeguy
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by Ryeguy » Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:01 am

Interesting business concept.... 1,000 individuals pay $2K each ($2M) for these guys to open a new "brick and mortar" jewelry store and set up reseller arrangements with major brands. These 1,000 individuals would then be able to buy at "wholesale" prices while the store sold at normal mark-ups to the general public.

Kind of like a Costco or BJ's - your "membership fee" gets you access to lower prices.

Even for a relative bottom feeder like me, it would not take too long to recoup my $2K investment if I could buy AD warrantied watches at 50% retail. The store could probably argue it was not violating any pricing agreements in their AD contract due to the fact the low priced sales were only available to the "store owners" and not to the general public. The only nuance here would be in this case the store would have 1,000 "owners".

If only the plan wasn't concocted by a convicted felon... what could possibly go wrong?

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JP Chestnut
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by JP Chestnut » Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:11 am

These guys disappeared with tons of consignment watches. That's the bigger story than the stupid $2,000 pyramid scheme. This isn't the first time that a well known, vouched for, dealer cut and ran. Hopefully this smartens up some of the newbs who just got into the hobby.

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Chocodove
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by Chocodove » Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:19 am

It's pretty stupid to essentially "steal" all those consignment watches considering that many of the owners surely know the serial numbers, etc. It's a lot of stuff to illicitly unload in one way or another, if that is what they actually plan on doing. I don't put anything past anyone these days, especially YouTube "celebrities".
- Todd

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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by Mr_Pacman » Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:25 am

I've only watched 10 mins of one episode so I don't know much about how they operate but I wonder if this is a poor attempt at a social media publicity stunt?

They had a lot of followers and seemed like they could have milked this new found fame vs pulling a scam.

If it is a stunt, it might not be good for business :)

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JP Chestnut
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by JP Chestnut » Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:26 am

Chocodove wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:19 am
It's pretty stupid to essentially "steal" all those consignment watches considering that many of the owners surely know the serial numbers, etc. It's a lot of stuff to illicitly unload in one way or another, if that is what they actually plan on doing. I don't put anything past anyone these days, especially YouTube "celebrities".
They might have been robbed and murdered. Who knows?

However, watches are easy to transport and there are a lot of places in the world with money and a willingness to look the other way with illicit goods. Additionally, can you imagine the possibilities for frankenwatches if you got your hands on 100 vintage watches? Toss the cases (assuming they can't be re-serialized, which I suspect they can) buy up a bunch of ratty shit watches and build something with big bucks.

This hobby is a house of cards.
Last edited by JP Chestnut on Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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JP Chestnut
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by JP Chestnut » Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:27 am

Mr_Pacman wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:25 am
I've only watched 10 mins of one episode so I don't know much about how they operate but I wonder if this is a poor attempt at a social media publicity stunt?
The down low story is that legit dealers are owed money by these guys and can't reach them. It could be stunt, but if so they're really fucking themselves for future dealer to dealer deals.

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deepcdvr
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by deepcdvr » Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:41 am

Chocodove wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:19 am
It's pretty stupid to essentially "steal" all those consignment watches considering that many of the owners surely know the serial numbers, etc. It's a lot of stuff to illicitly unload in one way or another, if that is what they actually plan on doing. I don't put anything past anyone these days, especially YouTube "celebrities".
If you find out where they're unloading them, let me know! (for a friend, of course). :fro:
VR/
Paul

SI VI PACEM, PARA BELLUM

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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by AtomicTom » Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:49 am

Wow, just wow ! :shock: Honestly have never even heard of them. But this is pretty
terrible if it all ends up being true. I mean I always like to see the good in people,
and give them the benefit of the doubt. However, that isn't always possible in many
cases unfortunately.

Am really hoping someone can get to the bottom of this. It all sounds insane.

Really appreciate the report about it Todd !

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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by River Rat » Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:41 am

Unless they left the country and went to one that the USA don't have a treaty for extradition they will be doing jail time in the future and turning on each other for less jail time. Every one knows there names and faces they can't get far doing youtube videos to do a crime stupid we know who you are dumb ass.

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Ryeguy
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by Ryeguy » Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:47 am

JP Chestnut wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:11 am
These guys disappeared with tons of consignment watches. That's the bigger story than the stupid $2,000 pyramid scheme. This isn't the first time that a well known, vouched for, dealer cut and ran. Hopefully this smartens up some of the newbs who just got into the hobby.
We'll never know the details, but I would be curious about the ratio of ponzi scheme money versus consignment watch inventory money these guys stole. They probably spent less than $50K on that store front, so there could've been quite a bit of ponzi money left in the bag.

In either regard, it seems they stole from individuals who might have a difficult time claiming their losses.

The ponzi scheme victims were buying into a business arrangement and I'm sure they were told there was no guarantee of success, so they are out $2K and just move on with their lives.

If AD's were pushing watches to these guys for the ol' grey market mark-up and kick-back scheme, I'm guessing the watch AD's might be nervous in making claims to their insurance companies. I assume once you ship a watch to a consignment shop, your insurance company probably no longer covers the asset (as it is no longer in your possession and care) so making a claim will be difficult.

The AD's can't even go back to the brand for relief as admission of using grey dealers is probably a violation of the reseller agreement.

Bottom line is these guys found a way to rob a greedy, yet gullible, audience who have little ability to seek restitution.

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JP Chestnut
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by JP Chestnut » Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:58 am

Ryeguy wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:47 am
JP Chestnut wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:11 am
These guys disappeared with tons of consignment watches. That's the bigger story than the stupid $2,000 pyramid scheme. This isn't the first time that a well known, vouched for, dealer cut and ran. Hopefully this smartens up some of the newbs who just got into the hobby.
We'll never know the details, but I would be curious about the ratio of ponzi scheme money versus consignment watch inventory money these guys stole. They probably spent less than $50K on that store front, so there could've been quite a bit of ponzi money left in the bag.
As I understand it, the ponzi set up bought you into a "special" facebook group where they offered some watches at wholesale prices. From what I've heard, 300 bought in to the group and there were indeed watches offered to them. I obviously haven't looked at the contract (there probably wasn't one) but if they just went out of business, I'm not sure the ponzi thing would have run afoul of the law. They offered access to these watches and provided it -- for a time.

Taking stuff on consignment or doing dealer trades/buys and not settling up is a different sort of crime.

On edit: you raise a good point though. If the "consignment" was a kickback scheme with ADs then the ADs are SOL I think. I had assumed the consignment was the selling of used watches sent in by regular owners.

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Ryeguy
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by Ryeguy » Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:49 am

JP Chestnut wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:58 am
Ryeguy wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:47 am
JP Chestnut wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:11 am
These guys disappeared with tons of consignment watches. That's the bigger story than the stupid $2,000 pyramid scheme. This isn't the first time that a well known, vouched for, dealer cut and ran. Hopefully this smartens up some of the newbs who just got into the hobby.
We'll never know the details, but I would be curious about the ratio of ponzi scheme money versus consignment watch inventory money these guys stole. They probably spent less than $50K on that store front, so there could've been quite a bit of ponzi money left in the bag.
As I understand it, the ponzi set up bought you into a "special" facebook group where they offered some watches at wholesale prices. From what I've heard, 300 bought in to the group and there were indeed watches offered to them. I obviously haven't looked at the contract (there probably wasn't one) but if they just went out of business, I'm not sure the ponzi thing would have run afoul of the law. They offered access to these watches and provided it -- for a time.

Taking stuff on consignment or doing dealer trades/buys and not settling up is a different sort of crime.

On edit: you raise a good point though. If the "consignment" was a kickback scheme with ADs then the ADs are SOL I think. I had assumed the consignment was the selling of used watches sent in by regular owners.
I'm not an insurance expert by any means, but I wonder if even regular watch owners who sent their watches to these guys would be covered under their personal insurance contracts?

My guess is no. I would think an insurance company would insure you, the owner, based upon your location, maybe how you stored the watch (safe, etc.), and any other risk variables associated with you, the owner.

On edit - and with just a quick on-line search so I could be wrong, but it appears there is such a thing as "consignment insurance". I believe the only way the "average Joe watch owner" would be protected is if they took out this kind of additional gap insurance.

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JP Chestnut
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by JP Chestnut » Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:56 am

Ryeguy wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:49 am
JP Chestnut wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:58 am
Ryeguy wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:47 am
JP Chestnut wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:11 am
These guys disappeared with tons of consignment watches. That's the bigger story than the stupid $2,000 pyramid scheme. This isn't the first time that a well known, vouched for, dealer cut and ran. Hopefully this smartens up some of the newbs who just got into the hobby.
We'll never know the details, but I would be curious about the ratio of ponzi scheme money versus consignment watch inventory money these guys stole. They probably spent less than $50K on that store front, so there could've been quite a bit of ponzi money left in the bag.
As I understand it, the ponzi set up bought you into a "special" facebook group where they offered some watches at wholesale prices. From what I've heard, 300 bought in to the group and there were indeed watches offered to them. I obviously haven't looked at the contract (there probably wasn't one) but if they just went out of business, I'm not sure the ponzi thing would have run afoul of the law. They offered access to these watches and provided it -- for a time.

Taking stuff on consignment or doing dealer trades/buys and not settling up is a different sort of crime.

On edit: you raise a good point though. If the "consignment" was a kickback scheme with ADs then the ADs are SOL I think. I had assumed the consignment was the selling of used watches sent in by regular owners.
I'm not an insurance expert by any means, but I wonder if even regular watch owners who sent their watches to these guys would be covered under their personal insurance contracts?

My guess is no. I would think an insurance company would insure you, the owner, based upon your location, maybe how you stored the watch (safe, etc.), and any other risk variables associated with you, the owner.

On edit - and with just a quick on-line search so I could be wrong, but it appears there is such a thing as "consignment insurance". I believe the only way the "average Joe watch owner" would be protected is if they took out this kind of additional gap insurance.
I agree with you. I worked in P&C insurance, and most policies don't cover your watch if you store it in a bank vault. Personal insurance typically covers your items when they're on your person and in your usual space. Otherwise, none of use would insure watches when we ship -- we'd just claim any loss against our homeowners policy.

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gr8sw
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by gr8sw » Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:40 pm

no shortage of criminals and suckers... these guys will be toast soon
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Henryj
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by Henryj » Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:25 pm

deepcdvr wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:41 am
Chocodove wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:19 am
It's pretty stupid to essentially "steal" all those consignment watches considering that many of the owners surely know the serial numbers, etc. It's a lot of stuff to illicitly unload in one way or another, if that is what they actually plan on doing. I don't put anything past anyone these days, especially YouTube "celebrities".
If you find out where they're unloading them, let me know! (for a friend, of course). :fro:
Here’s what I’m thinking. If each of us here on DWC sends Paul $2000, he can take some personal time to find the missing watches and sell them to us at a substantial discount.
“Punishable by fine” = Legal for a price.”

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Chocodove
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by Chocodove » Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:30 pm

Henryj wrote:
deepcdvr wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:41 am
Chocodove wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:19 am
It's pretty stupid to essentially "steal" all those consignment watches considering that many of the owners surely know the serial numbers, etc. It's a lot of stuff to illicitly unload in one way or another, if that is what they actually plan on doing. I don't put anything past anyone these days, especially YouTube "celebrities".
If you find out where they're unloading them, let me know! (for a friend, of course). :fro:
Here’s what I’m thinking. If each of us here on DWC sends Paul $2000, he can take some personal time to find the missing watches and sell them to us at a substantial discount.
Just remember, money order or cash only!
- Todd

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Selym
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by Selym » Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:35 pm

For what it's worth, Roman Sharf and some other people associated with the gray market watch industry did a YouTube live to discuss this situation. During the live session, Anthony Farrer and Marco Nicolini allegedly made contact with Roman. The video has since been made private.

Last edited by Selym on Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JBZ
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by JBZ » Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:51 pm

So they took in $2MM, plus consigned watches, rented some sort of storefront that they slicked up to look good on Youtube, and then took off with whatever was left of the money and a lot of consigned watches?

The whole "give us money now for an opportunity to buy at wholesale later" would have raised a major red flag with me, but it appears they got enough folks to bite. And I watched part of one of the videos. It was just them talking to each other on the phone discussing "business strategy" and then one of them going to a retailer and buying some pre-owned watches. I got bored.
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Selym
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by Selym » Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:54 pm

If it looks like a douche, and talks like a douche, it probably is a douche. :shrug:

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Chocodove
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by Chocodove » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:08 pm

It’s going to be great when this all turns out to be some sort of twisted publicity stunt.

Seriously though, this situation quite nicely sums up everything wrong with the high end watch market these days.
- Todd

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Selym
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by Selym » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:13 pm

Chocodove wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:08 pm
It’s going to be great when this all turns out to be some sort of twisted publicity stunt.
That was the consensus among the participants of the YouTube video I posted. Unfortunately, I don't trust any of these guys as far as I can throw them.

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Chocodove
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by Chocodove » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:16 pm

Selym wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:13 pm
Chocodove wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:08 pm
It’s going to be great when this all turns out to be some sort of twisted publicity stunt.
That was the consensus among the participants of the YouTube video I posted. Unfortunately, I don't trust any of these guys as far as I can throw them.
It would a pretty weird way to drum up publicity for a grey dealer. "hey, you may remember me from business innovations such as 'pretending to disappear with a lot of other people's watches and money', so join my buying club or consign today!"
- Todd

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toxicavenger
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Re: Timepiece Gentleman

Post by toxicavenger » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:59 pm

stunt or not they deserve a punch in the mouth

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