Exactly. Thanks for understanding where I'm going with all this, Matt.matt.wu wrote:In this situation, at least in my mind, we're not even concerned with legal rights. It's more on a conceptual "where do I choose to put my money and support" level.
Whether or not Fricker legally had the right to sell the cases to other companies (Dievas) is of little consequence to me. The fact that it was originally a Kobold case is what is most important to me and my money.
craniotes wrote:Exactly. Thanks for understanding where I'm going with all this, Matt.matt.wu wrote:In this situation, at least in my mind, we're not even concerned with legal rights. It's more on a conceptual "where do I choose to put my money and support" level.
Whether or not Fricker legally had the right to sell the cases to other companies (Dievas) is of little consequence to me. The fact that it was originally a Kobold case is what is most important to me and my money.
Regards,
Adam
What? There's no kool-aid being drunk here, and I'm not concerned with whether or not the rights were secured by Kobold. All I'm saying is that Kobold used these cases first; they're recognized as Kobold designs and feature traditional Kobold design cues; and that anyone using them after the fact is a) lazy, b) a poor excuse for a watch "company", and c) is coming to the party a day late and a dollar short.moishlashen wrote:We all can see where you're going with it. This isnt the Kobold forum so the koolaid stops here.
. And yes I know you said you are not concerned with legal ownership but that's what it boils down to in the end. I remember when Dievas came out with their Marathon clones and I thought "Kewl, I can get a similar watch for less $$". But in the end I decided to just hang on and save until I could get the real deal Marathon and I'm glad I did. If others want to buy a clone that's up to them, but most people will want the real thing and put their money there instead. Which is why I'm saving for a Seamaster 2255.80 instead of buying a Alpha, gotta have the "Real Deal" 
.
With all due respect, WTF? If you've got an issue with my personal beliefs, PM me. As for everything that I've said, I stand by each and every statement 100%. If Derek tells me to cool it, I will -- you, not so much.moishlashen wrote:Just concerned with the truth really. You can't come here and beat people over the head with your personal beliefs about who designed what-gonna need the facts to do that. That don't fly here. Fairly bored with this subject personally but I will agree I wouldn't buy a knock off watch either mainly for personal reasons probably similar to yours.
craniotes wrote:With all due respect, WTF? If you've got an issue with my personal beliefs, PM me. As for everything that I've said, I stand by each and every statement 100%. If Derek tells me to cool it, I will -- you, not so much.moishlashen wrote:Just concerned with the truth really. You can't come here and beat people over the head with your personal beliefs about who designed what-gonna need the facts to do that. That don't fly here. Fairly bored with this subject personally but I will agree I wouldn't buy a knock off watch either mainly for personal reasons probably similar to yours.
In the meantime I'll steer clear your posts, and you can do me a favor by steering clear of mine. Sound fair?
Regards,
Adam
craniotes wrote:I've gotta say I'm not at all sure what this bug up your ass is all about (seriously, if you're tired of my "blathering" and "bored" with my posts, then it probably would've been best to simply pass 'em on by), but hey, at least we know where we stand with one another.
Regards,
Adam
PS - Oh, and in case the tenor of my posts here took you by surprise, re-read the title of this thread... Not sure what you expected to find here, big guy. Just sayin'.
PPS - No worries, Steve, I'm cool (might be taking the Sinn plunge before long). As for Chris, given that our previous interactions over the years have never been anything other than civil, I can only assume that it's his time of the month.
Well, I'm the first to admit that being saddled with a 3 year old and a 10 month old for the day shortens the ol' fuse a bit (think:moishlashen wrote:craniotes wrote:I've gotta say I'm not at all sure what this bug up your ass is all about (seriously, if you're tired of my "blathering" and "bored" with my posts, then it probably would've been best to simply pass 'em on by), but hey, at least we know where we stand with one another.
Regards,
Adam
PS - Oh, and in case the tenor of my posts here took you by surprise, re-read the title of this thread... Not sure what you expected to find here, big guy. Just sayin'.
PPS - No worries, Steve, I'm cool (might be taking the Sinn plunge before long). As for Chris, given that our previous interactions over the years have never been anything other than civil, I can only assume that it's his time of the month.
I encourage you to post often. As I've said from the beginning I deal in facts. If I don't have the facts all personal beliefs are just that-personal. Not gonna have a newbie read these posts and assume that Fricker is the bad guy here without knowing the facts. All I ask for is the facts. Facts. Facts. Facts. Facts. Get the point? This is a watch forum so nothing personal and I don't think I've said anything personal or disrespectfull. I'm not a lightweight like that. I believe I have been civil but until I get the facts its all blathering IMO. Just trying to get that point out there.
) -- and being told that I'm blathering by someone whom I consider a friend doesn't help matters much -- so in that light, I apologize if my responses came off as a bit strident. Anyway, no harm no foul. And to anyone sitting back and enjoying the view, just know that it takes a lot more than a single thread to put a stalwart like Chris on my list.
Wise man speaks... I listen...SCM64 wrote: Just buy Sinn.
aikiman44 wrote:Think I'm gonna post a link to this thread on WUS.
rationaltime wrote:Hello Adam,craniotes wrote:With respect to the SMG-1, the design of the case was done with Kobold's input, and the tooling to create it was paid for by Kobold. ...
Regards,
Adam\
What do you mean by "tooling"? Titanium is a hard material with a high
melting point. I am pretty sure those titanium cases had to be machined
and not punched. So, what tooling was needed? Could it be a program
to drive an EDM or milling machine? Those programs are usually generated
automatically from the CAD drawings. I guess we could say someone has
to spend time verifying the program.
There is more to a design than the external angles on the lugs. In my
opinion there is a significant difference to giving "input" and designing
a case. Fricker would go into this knowing the internal dimensions for
installing a crystal, bezel, movement spacer, and the case back
threading. They would have drawings showing that as a starting point.
I don't know if Fricker previously sold a case this size. Perhaps they
made the first ones for Kobold, but that does not necessarily give Kobold
exclusive rights.
I guess a customer might tell the vendor it is all right to sell more cases
hoping to get the volume up and the unit cost down. I don't know in this
instance, but I guess it might cost more for exclusive use of a specific
product. Whether to enter into an exclusive agreement is a gamble for
both parties.
We weren't part of the discussions and we don't know what happened
between Kobold and Fricker. The rest is speculation.
Anyway, if a story lacks verisimilitude ...
Thanks,
rationaltime
lolEnergyarts wrote:It's tough to have a conversation with customers that already own Kobold's. I mean they want to justify their watches ($$) spend. As far stealing someones else design Kobold did the same they stole from (Sinn). I don't know why is so difficult to understand that Kobold did not design the case for the SMG-1, they did not..period...Fricker owns it and that's a fact and Vortex proves it. When Kobold makes their own cases, designs in house UTS style than come here and make a point, otherwise they are no better than Dievas, Helson, Deep Blue etc.........Kobold stole too, so stop believing they paid for the rights to Sinn, please show facts and not rumors from left and right.
Hmm...Energyarts wrote:
It's tough to have a conversation with customers that already own Kobold's. I mean they want to justify their watches ($$) spend. As far stealing someones else design Kobold did the same they stole from (Sinn). I don't know why is so difficult to understand that Kobold did not design the case for the SMG-1, they did not..period...Fricker owns it and that's a fact and Vortex proves it. When Kobold makes their own cases, designs in house UTS style than come here and make a point, otherwise they are no better than Dievas, Helson, Deep Blue etc.........Kobold stole too, so stop believing they paid for the rights to Sinn, please show facts and not rumors from left and right.
