Same with SeikoJP Chestnut wrote:It's true. There's so much duplicity in the watch industry right now. Almost everyone seems to be trying to cut corners while pumping prices through the roof. Not to make it a "Rolex versus" thread, but at least with them it's fairly clear where you stand.matt.wu wrote:And then of course you open everyone's favorite can of worms - what really constitutes in-house...
New Bremont LE.....
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Re: New Bremont LE.....
We all have the same enemy. The enemy is the tyranny of the dull mind. - - Tom Robbins
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Re: New Bremont LE.....
I haven't seen any response from Bremont. Shocking.Jeep99dad wrote:Me toomatt.wu wrote:This is certainly pretty damning though.
Looking forward to Bremont's response:
It's gotta be addressed. Maybe it has and I missed it though
Re: New Bremont LE.....
Maybe the other gimmick/limited-edition-heavy companies without any horological credibility to speak of commission these things to make their stuff seem more reasonable by comparison?
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Re: New Bremont LE.....
Just saw this posted on Alt1tude.
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Re: New Bremont LE.....
Seems like a pretty straightforward answer.logan2z wrote:Just saw this posted on Alt1tude.
Not like these kinds of things don't happen. I remember Tag had something with Seiko's chrono they bought the rights to a while back.
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Re: New Bremont LE.....
matt.wu wrote:This is certainly pretty damning though.
Looking forward to Bremont's response:
Poached:
Re: New Bremont LE.....
This is reminiscent of a Panerai scandal.
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Re: New Bremont LE.....
I thought of that as well, but this is worse. I can't recall any other so blatantly bullshit line of nonsense. At least the PAM Brooklyn Bridge actually had the movement they said, just an uglier version.lilhoody wrote:This is reminiscent of a Panerai scandal.
Re: New Bremont LE.....
So when they truly do an in-house movement, what will the price on the stainless steel version be? $100K?
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Re: New Bremont LE.....
ProbablyJBZ wrote:So when they truly do an in-house movement, what will the price on the stainless steel version be? $100K?
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Re: New Bremont LE.....
JBZ wrote:So when they truly do an in-house movement, what will the price on the stainless steel version be? $100K?
Omega / Tudor / Rolex / Sinn / Doxa / Seiko
Re: New Bremont LE.....
----------JP Chestnut wrote:I thought of that as well, but this is worse. I can't recall any other so blatantly bullshit line of nonsense. At least the PAM Brooklyn Bridge actually had the movement they said, just an uglier version.lilhoody wrote:This is reminiscent of a Panerai scandal.
That Tag in-house debacle-- based on the Seiko.. That was pretty bad...
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Re: New Bremont LE.....
That was the closest I could think of, but I don't expect much from TAG. I've never cared enough to unravel all the bullshit about that. Were they buying in Seiko movements and changing a rotor (as it seems Bremont is doing - their movement manufacturer is owned by Citizen BTW), or did they have some sort of exclusive right to produce the movement themselves? I seem to recall the latter but there are so many clueless people it's hard to know what's the truth.jimyritz wrote:----------JP Chestnut wrote:I thought of that as well, but this is worse. I can't recall any other so blatantly bullshit line of nonsense. At least the PAM Brooklyn Bridge actually had the movement they said, just an uglier version.lilhoody wrote:This is reminiscent of a Panerai scandal.
That Tag in-house debacle-- based on the Seiko.. That was pretty bad...
Re: New Bremont LE.....
yes, but it will have a microscopic piece of pubic hair from amelia erhart coiled into the mainspring.JBZ wrote:So when they truly do an in-house movement, what will the price on the stainless steel version be? $100K?
Re: New Bremont LE.....
---------JP Chestnut wrote:That was the closest I could think of, but I don't expect much from TAG. I've never cared enough to unravel all the bullshit about that. Were they buying in Seiko movements and changing a rotor (as it seems Bremont is doing - their movement manufacturer is owned by Citizen BTW), or did they have some sort of exclusive right to produce the movement themselves? I seem to recall the latter but there are so many clueless people it's hard to know what's the truth.jimyritz wrote:----------JP Chestnut wrote:I thought of that as well, but this is worse. I can't recall any other so blatantly bullshit line of nonsense. At least the PAM Brooklyn Bridge actually had the movement they said, just an uglier version.lilhoody wrote:This is reminiscent of a Panerai scandal.
That Tag in-house debacle-- based on the Seiko.. That was pretty bad...
From Hodinkee:
TAG Heuer acquired the exclusive European rights to the TC87 movement platform from Seiko, who had patented the design back in 1997, and used it as the foundation for the 1887. TAG started with the Seiko 6S37 column wheel chronograph and adapted it to suit their needs, doing things like moving the balance wheel's position, flattening the movement out overall, and reconfiguring the main plate, bridge, and oscillator architecture.
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Re: New Bremont LE.....
Thanks for that. The TAG situation sounds like a good deal more customization than Bremont did, by all the accounts that I've read (a different rotor and a couple very very minor parts). I also don't find their explanation all that persuasive. Sure, had they originally listed this movement as "a first step towards in house production and we're very proud of the few changes we personally make" I don't think anyone would have complained. However, to call this movement in-house requires Herculean amounts of verbal gymnastics - even if you consider something like the Omega 8500 or the TAG 1887 to be legitimately "in house". This is more akin to the days when IWC actually bought ETA ebauches, wound their own springs, and performed other customization in their own facilities.jimyritz wrote:---------JP Chestnut wrote:That was the closest I could think of, but I don't expect much from TAG. I've never cared enough to unravel all the bullshit about that. Were they buying in Seiko movements and changing a rotor (as it seems Bremont is doing - their movement manufacturer is owned by Citizen BTW), or did they have some sort of exclusive right to produce the movement themselves? I seem to recall the latter but there are so many clueless people it's hard to know what's the truth.jimyritz wrote:----------JP Chestnut wrote:I thought of that as well, but this is worse. I can't recall any other so blatantly bullshit line of nonsense. At least the PAM Brooklyn Bridge actually had the movement they said, just an uglier version.lilhoody wrote:This is reminiscent of a Panerai scandal.
That Tag in-house debacle-- based on the Seiko.. That was pretty bad...
From Hodinkee:
TAG Heuer acquired the exclusive European rights to the TC87 movement platform from Seiko, who had patented the design back in 1997, and used it as the foundation for the 1887. TAG started with the Seiko 6S37 column wheel chronograph and adapted it to suit their needs, doing things like moving the balance wheel's position, flattening the movement out overall, and reconfiguring the main plate, bridge, and oscillator architecture.
Bremont has been fairly deft at playing the PR game on the forums and general interest print magazines. This was a huge blunder.
Re: New Bremont LE.....
so am I to understand that the Bremont movement is actually a Arnold and Son movement? Is that the net of this?
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Re: New Bremont LE.....
Minus the rotor and a couple tiny bolt on parts, it seems like it. Bremont now seems to be claiming some involvement with the movement manufacture during the design of the movement but I find it hard to believe that they:ericf4 wrote:so am I to understand that the Bremont movement is actually a Arnold and Son movement? Is that the net of this?
a) have the horological skill required to bring anything to the table
b) would allow "their" movement to be debuted in a different watch first
It seems like a bunch of smoke and mirrors at this point. All I know is Bremont made some strong claims regarding the "in house" nature of the movement and some guy popped up online and totally blew that up. Now their story appears to be have "evolved" to be a little closer to what seems to be the truth.
Re: New Bremont LE.....
ouch.....not good...
Re: New Bremont LE.....
plus, cant I buy a Arnold and Son watch for far less than the Bremont......Same engine etc.....minus the cloth from the wright deal?
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Re: New Bremont LE.....
Come on? Who doesn't want to drop $27,000 on an Arnold and Son movement and a microscopic piece of cloth that covered the Wright Flyer after its historic flight. Yep, I'm hearing the plane was re-skinned after making history and this is where the fabric comes from.ericf4 wrote:ouch.....not good...
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Re: New Bremont LE.....
This whole thing is a disaster. Makes me sad, because Bremont is a great, innovative company. But this sure seems like a major misstep to me, and the PR backlash is going to really sting.
Re: New Bremont LE.....
$45k.....that's funny......good luck.