Global slow down...

[aztecknight]

The problem with just re-opening for business is that it won't solve anything. We are in the middle of a pandemic. So simply telling everyone that businesses are open won't mean that the economy will get back to normal. Lots of people will still be reluctant to gather in groups at restaurants, events, on airplanes, etc. And, since the real decision regarding whether to shut things down has been left to the states, some states will relax their rules, and some won't.

Meanwhile, the promotion of such a policy means that more people WILL do those things, which means more people will get sick, which means a greater likelihood that the healthcare system gets overwhelmed, which means more deaths from Covid-19 and other maladies that require hospitalization or medical attention due to lack of resources.

So it would basically be the worst of both worlds. More dead people AND a shitty economy. Better to continue what we're doing - social distancing to flatten the curve, ramping up production of PPE (hopefully), researching/developing a vaccine and medications, and counting on Congress to pass a stimulus package to keep everyone afloat (which they seem close to right now, but we'll see).

I totally agree with you. I'd MUCH rather the government dump massive amounts of money into the hands of people who are suffering than ease this up and make it all for nothing.

We have already shit all over the economy. Let's get something out of it at least.

Ultimately, I think keeping everyone quarantined for 18 months is completely unreasonable. But what we're doing now should buy us time to ramp up testing and medical resources, which will allow us to engage in targeted quarantines/isolation and ease the strain on the healthcare system. That will probably allow people to get back to work even before a vaccine is developed.

And no one, regardless of political party, is entirely comfortable with a $2 trillion stimulus package that's getting put together this quickly. As a former boss once said, "that's something that can only get fucked up." But I don't see much of an alternative at this point. The feds have to stop the bleeding.

You're right that 18 months isn't feasible. However, mid-may? We just need more time, testing, and information before we can make an informed choice on how to go forward.

I agree with both of you. Take this time to build a shit load of ventilators and PPE and some hospital space, then open everything up. The problem is we can't treat it, if the people have confidence we can treat it and not overwhelm the medical system, they'd be more likely to move on with their lives.

[demer03]

The problem with just re-opening for business is that it won't solve anything. We are in the middle of a pandemic. So simply telling everyone that businesses are open won't mean that the economy will get back to normal. Lots of people will still be reluctant to gather in groups at restaurants, events, on airplanes, etc. And, since the real decision regarding whether to shut things down has been left to the states, some states will relax their rules, and some won't.

Meanwhile, the promotion of such a policy means that more people WILL do those things, which means more people will get sick, which means a greater likelihood that the healthcare system gets overwhelmed, which means more deaths from Covid-19 and other maladies that require hospitalization or medical attention due to lack of resources.

So it would basically be the worst of both worlds. More dead people AND a shitty economy. Better to continue what we're doing - social distancing to flatten the curve, ramping up production of PPE (hopefully), researching/developing a vaccine and medications, and counting on Congress to pass a stimulus package to keep everyone afloat (which they seem close to right now, but we'll see).

I totally agree with you. I'd MUCH rather the government dump massive amounts of money into the hands of people who are suffering than ease this up and make it all for nothing.

We have already shit all over the economy. Let's get something out of it at least.

Ultimately, I think keeping everyone quarantined for 18 months is completely unreasonable. But what we're doing now should buy us time to ramp up testing and medical resources, which will allow us to engage in targeted quarantines/isolation and ease the strain on the healthcare system. That will probably allow people to get back to work even before a vaccine is developed.

And no one, regardless of political party, is entirely comfortable with a $2 trillion stimulus package that's getting put together this quickly. As a former boss once said, "that's something that can only get fucked up." But I don't see much of an alternative at this point. The feds have to stop the bleeding.

You're right that 18 months isn't feasible. However, mid-may? We just need more time, testing, and information before we can make an informed choice on how to go forward.

It’s finding the acceptable balance that people will argue and question for decades to come. I don’t envy the man or woman who has to make that call.

[JP Chestnut]

The problem with just re-opening for business is that it won't solve anything. We are in the middle of a pandemic. So simply telling everyone that businesses are open won't mean that the economy will get back to normal. Lots of people will still be reluctant to gather in groups at restaurants, events, on airplanes, etc. And, since the real decision regarding whether to shut things down has been left to the states, some states will relax their rules, and some won't.

Meanwhile, the promotion of such a policy means that more people WILL do those things, which means more people will get sick, which means a greater likelihood that the healthcare system gets overwhelmed, which means more deaths from Covid-19 and other maladies that require hospitalization or medical attention due to lack of resources.

So it would basically be the worst of both worlds. More dead people AND a shitty economy. Better to continue what we're doing - social distancing to flatten the curve, ramping up production of PPE (hopefully), researching/developing a vaccine and medications, and counting on Congress to pass a stimulus package to keep everyone afloat (which they seem close to right now, but we'll see).

I totally agree with you. I'd MUCH rather the government dump massive amounts of money into the hands of people who are suffering than ease this up and make it all for nothing.

We have already shit all over the economy. Let's get something out of it at least.

Ultimately, I think keeping everyone quarantined for 18 months is completely unreasonable. But what we're doing now should buy us time to ramp up testing and medical resources, which will allow us to engage in targeted quarantines/isolation and ease the strain on the healthcare system. That will probably allow people to get back to work even before a vaccine is developed.

And no one, regardless of political party, is entirely comfortable with a $2 trillion stimulus package that's getting put together this quickly. As a former boss once said, "that's something that can only get fucked up." But I don't see much of an alternative at this point. The feds have to stop the bleeding.

You're right that 18 months isn't feasible. However, mid-may? We just need more time, testing, and information before we can make an informed choice on how to go forward.

It’s finding the acceptable balance that people will argue and question for decades to come. I don’t envy the man or woman who has to make that call.

That's true. No matter what choice is made, or by whom, a decent number of people are going to be pissed off - just like with most things political in nature.

[Ryeguy]

PPE - absolutely. Vents - maybe (we still have only so many care providers who can set up a ventilator).

The main thing at this point (at least in my mind) is the R&D needed to approve and then educate care providers on the best treatment protocols so we don't need all those extra ventilators.

I was very happy to hear NY was going to begin more broadly using that malaria drug / Z-pack combo to treat patients. I'm certain they will be capturing data on the recovery process for those patients.

If (and this is my sincerest hope) this malaria drug / Z-pack combo is able to keep the majority of patients out of the ICU and off ventilators, I think we will have the ability to open things up a bit.

[dnslater]

PPE - absolutely. Vents - maybe (we still have only so many care providers who can set up a ventilator).

Most modern hospitals are set up with the infrastructure (medical air/oxygen/power) to use a vent in every patient room (all ICU rooms, Medical/Surgical rooms, birthing rooms, etc...) but lack the actual equipment and staff training to support that amount of usage. Staff can be trained, but need the equipment.

[demer03]

^^this guy knows headwalls ^^

[Cabaiguan]

An average of over 102 people die in car accidents in the US in ONE day. Let’s get a grip. Media is blowing this shit out of proportion. If you’re older or in poor health, stay indoors and limit interaction. Otherwise, open the economy up and work toward vaccine.

[gonzomantis]

An average of over 102 people die in car accidents in the US in ONE day. Let’s get a grip. Media is blowing this shit out of proportion. If you’re older or in poor health, stay indoors and limit interaction. Otherwise, open the economy up and work toward vaccine.

I can believe that number, for deaths. The bigger issue appears to be number of hospitalizations required.

[dnslater]

^^this guy knows headwalls ^^

[SoCal C4S]

This is getting really old. I know that I can freely avoid reading this thread, but I'm like a deer in headlights. Everyone is an expert, and the liberal BS being spouted off, epecially by one individual, is too much.

We’re all adults here, political affiliation and beliefs notwithstanding. No need to get triggered by what is posted. Just unsubscribe from the thread or scroll on past the post(s) that bother you...

[fastward]

An average of over 102 people die in car accidents in the US in ONE day. Let’s get a grip. Media is blowing this shit out of proportion. If you’re older or in poor health, stay indoors and limit interaction. Otherwise, open the economy up and work toward vaccine.

I can believe that number, for deaths. The bigger issue appears to be number of hospitalizations required.

More than that died in NYC yesterday. This is going to continue to get worse.

We need to try to minimize the spread as best as possible as to not overload the healthcare system.

[JP Chestnut]

This is getting really old. I know that I can freely avoid reading this thread, but I'm like a deer in headlights. Everyone is an expert, and the liberal BS being spouted off, epecially by one individual, is too much.

We’re all adults here, political affiliation and beliefs notwithstanding. No need to get triggered by what is posted. Just unsubscribe from the thread or scroll on past the post(s) that bother you...

Do you even internet bro?

[Ryeguy]

PPE - absolutely. Vents - maybe (we still have only so many care providers who can set up a ventilator).

Most modern hospitals are set up with the infrastructure (medical air/oxygen/power) to use a vent in every patient room (all ICU rooms, Medical/Surgical rooms, birthing rooms, etc...) but lack the actual equipment and staff training to support that amount of usage. Staff can be trained, but need the equipment.

While I agree with your statement, the point I was trying to make was "more ventilators" isn't enough of an answer for me to want to reduce my COVID-19 level of awareness.

There are a number of risks associated with ventilator use (with a number of them being the result of improper ventilator set up). The process of weaning people off ventilators is also challenging. The reality is some people never come off vents once they go on them.

A proven therapeutic protocol to minimize the number of people who need ICU-level care is the key IMO.

[pacifichrono]

...Take this time to build a shit load of ventilators and PPE and some hospital space, then open everything up. The problem is we can't treat it, if the people have confidence we can treat it and not overwhelm the medical system, they'd be more likely to move on with their lives.

Good point. Obviously, next week or the week after is NOT the right time issue the "all clear," but 18 months is ludicrous and would not only cripple the rest of OUR lives, but our CHILDREN'S lives as well!

[toxicavenger]

It’s finding the acceptable balance that people will argue and question for decades to come. I don’t envy the man or woman who has to make that call.

Right. There is no winning in this situation. Trying to find out the best solution is going to be tough.

I really hope this wakes some people up and they learn to "live" again. Just way to much anger and hate. If anything I have seen some super selfish people react in ways I did not believe was possible.

[sierra11b]

No pork? All for the people they said...

What a steaming pile of crap.

[BBK357]

PPE - absolutely. Vents - maybe (we still have only so many care providers who can set up a ventilator).

Most modern hospitals are set up with the infrastructure (medical air/oxygen/power) to use a vent in every patient room (all ICU rooms, Medical/Surgical rooms, birthing rooms, etc...) but lack the actual equipment and staff training to support that amount of usage. Staff can be trained, but need the equipment.

While I agree with your statement, the point I was trying to make was "more ventilators" isn't enough of an answer for me to want to reduce my COVID-19 level of awareness.

There are a number of risks associated with ventilator use (with a number of them being the result of improper ventilator set up). The process of weaning people off ventilators is also challenging. The reality is some people never come off vents once they go on them.

A proven therapeutic protocol to minimize the number of people who need ICU-level care is the key IMO.

^
This.

And- Elon can buy vents for every American, but good luck finding nurses m/rt who have been properly trained.
As mentioned way above on this thread, a sm/med suburban hospital near Columbus has 4 vents. I can guarantee less than a handful of nurses/rt there know how to properly use them. And docs prob don’t even know settings/weaning protocol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pacifichrono]

By far, the BIGGEST problem with this COVID-19 thing is: no sports...none, nada, zip, not even t-ball.

[Selym]

An average of over 102 people die in car accidents in the US in ONE day. Let’s get a grip. Media is blowing this shit out of proportion. If you’re older or in poor health, stay indoors and limit interaction. Otherwise, open the economy up and work toward vaccine.

Car accidents aren't contagious.

A person with a mild case that doesn't require hospital intervention can infect an at-risk person. That's the reason for "social distancing".

[demer03]

PPE - absolutely. Vents - maybe (we still have only so many care providers who can set up a ventilator).

Most modern hospitals are set up with the infrastructure (medical air/oxygen/power) to use a vent in every patient room (all ICU rooms, Medical/Surgical rooms, birthing rooms, etc...) but lack the actual equipment and staff training to support that amount of usage. Staff can be trained, but need the equipment.

While I agree with your statement, the point I was trying to make was "more ventilators" isn't enough of an answer for me to want to reduce my COVID-19 level of awareness.

There are a number of risks associated with ventilator use (with a number of them being the result of improper ventilator set up). The process of weaning people off ventilators is also challenging. The reality is some people never come off vents once they go on them.

A proven therapeutic protocol to minimize the number of people who need ICU-level care is the key IMO.

^
This.

And- Elon can buy vents for every American, but good luck finding nurses m/rt who have been properly trained.
As mentioned way above on this thread, a sm/med suburban hospital near Columbus has 4 vents. I can guarantee less than a handful of nurses/rt there know how to properly use them. And docs prob don’t even know settings/weaning protocol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At least there is a shift to four year degreed RT’s. Nothing against the old on-the-job trained from the old days. My daughters program was much more rigorous and at a depth the ones she’s replaced never experienced. Some of the near retirees are shockingly inexperienced to many conditions.

[HapaHapa]

No pork? All for the people they said...

What a steaming pile of crap.

I like pork

[deepcdvr]

Good point

From this morning - these are cases per state per MILLION inhabitants, many millions of them who are this morning out of work. Do you think they would like to return to work in 46 states where they may have 30-40 people with the flu per MILLION inhabitants? Many of those states having record low unemployment rates just a few days ago...

I'm not saying I have an opinion one way or another - nor am I referencing "the Donald" - just saying we have a decision to make in the near future.


1920px-COVID-19_outbreak_USA_per_capita_cases_map_svg.png

Keep in mind that this is NOT actual cases per state per million, but CONFIRMED cases per state per million. The country is in it's infancy in testing so our data is extremely flawed until more testing is done. Hopefully we will know more in a couple of weeks. I am a business owner who is feeling the hurt, and completely understand that there is a business decision to be made regarding the tipping point, we just need better data to make a more informed decision.

True - only confirmed - and the numbers are low and arguably the tip of the iceberg.

But what is also “confirmed” are the deaths - so to your point, as testing gets ramped up, confirmed cases (which 99% recover from) will go up. My point is that % of fatalities will go *down* as confirmed cases go up.

[hoppyjr]

Good point

From this morning - these are cases per state per MILLION inhabitants, many millions of them who are this morning out of work. Do you think they would like to return to work in 46 states where they may have 30-40 people with the flu per MILLION inhabitants? Many of those states having record low unemployment rates just a few days ago...

I'm not saying I have an opinion one way or another - nor am I referencing "the Donald" - just saying we have a decision to make in the near future.


1920px-COVID-19_outbreak_USA_per_capita_cases_map_svg.png

Keep in mind that this is NOT actual cases per state per million, but CONFIRMED cases per state per million. The country is in it's infancy in testing so our data is extremely flawed until more testing is done. Hopefully we will know more in a couple of weeks. I am a business owner who is feeling the hurt, and completely understand that there is a business decision to be made regarding the tipping point, we just need better data to make a more informed decision.

True - only confirmed - and the numbers are low and arguably the tip of the iceberg.

But what is also “confirmed” are the deaths - so to your point, as testing gets ramped up, confirmed cases (which 99% recover from) will go up. My point is that % of fatalities will go *down* as confirmed cases go up.

I’ve been saying that too. It’s a fact.

[BBK357]

PPE - absolutely. Vents - maybe (we still have only so many care providers who can set up a ventilator).

Most modern hospitals are set up with the infrastructure (medical air/oxygen/power) to use a vent in every patient room (all ICU rooms, Medical/Surgical rooms, birthing rooms, etc...) but lack the actual equipment and staff training to support that amount of usage. Staff can be trained, but need the equipment.

While I agree with your statement, the point I was trying to make was "more ventilators" isn't enough of an answer for me to want to reduce my COVID-19 level of awareness.

There are a number of risks associated with ventilator use (with a number of them being the result of improper ventilator set up). The process of weaning people off ventilators is also challenging. The reality is some people never come off vents once they go on them.

A proven therapeutic protocol to minimize the number of people who need ICU-level care is the key IMO.

^
This.

And- Elon can buy vents for every American, but good luck finding nurses m/rt who have been properly trained.
As mentioned way above on this thread, a sm/med suburban hospital near Columbus has 4 vents. I can guarantee less than a handful of nurses/rt there know how to properly use them. And docs prob don’t even know settings/weaning protocol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At least there is a shift to four year degreed RT’s. Nothing against the old on-the-job trained from the old days. My daughters program was much more rigorous and at a depth the ones she’s replaced never experienced. Some of the near retirees are shockingly inexperienced to many conditions.

I find that older staff who have stayed in the same place are the ones who are a little too “comfortable” (lazy). In my area they don’t last long- the hospital finds a place for them. The one they use most is Patient placement. That’s where they go when they are grumpy or just plain lazy, but not fireable.
Def ones that I don’t want around me in a critical situation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sierra11b]

Good point

From this morning - these are cases per state per MILLION inhabitants, many millions of them who are this morning out of work. Do you think they would like to return to work in 46 states where they may have 30-40 people with the flu per MILLION inhabitants? Many of those states having record low unemployment rates just a few days ago...

I'm not saying I have an opinion one way or another - nor am I referencing "the Donald" - just saying we have a decision to make in the near future.


1920px-COVID-19_outbreak_USA_per_capita_cases_map_svg.png

Keep in mind that this is NOT actual cases per state per million, but CONFIRMED cases per state per million. The country is in it's infancy in testing so our data is extremely flawed until more testing is done. Hopefully we will know more in a couple of weeks. I am a business owner who is feeling the hurt, and completely understand that there is a business decision to be made regarding the tipping point, we just need better data to make a more informed decision.

True - only confirmed - and the numbers are low and arguably the tip of the iceberg.

But what is also “confirmed” are the deaths - so to your point, as testing gets ramped up, confirmed cases (which 99% recover from) will go up. My point is that % of fatalities will go *down* as confirmed cases go up.

I’ve been saying that too. It’s a fact.

Yep.

We've just gotta make sure to avoid the 50 car pile-up on the interstate in the meantime.