Tockr Air Defender

Discussion of microbrand watches
Heinz-D
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Heinz-D » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:47 am

That is not my intention. Others here are very comfortably throwing this words around

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Ryeguy
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Ryeguy » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:48 am

Image

But I'm enjoying it. Carry on.

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Jeep99dad
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Jeep99dad » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:52 am

Heinz-D wrote:
Jeep99dad wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:17 am
Hi
I own a Tockr, the Air Defender in blue. I find the quality to be very good and mine runs very well too. Its keeping great time. I know that the owner has to switch suppliers because of issues (discussed above). He is looking to put out new models, one soon and different sizes too. I like the new Panda Air Defender a lot. As for pricing, my AD was very fair and I’d suggest you cross-shop different ADs to get best price.
Well the watches look solid on some reviews but I didn't see any Air Defender models on that Signstimemovements site. Only the two models with the engine dials. The Chrono I didn't want anyhow. 1/3rd of the retailprice is fine for me. But still not feeling comfortable by buying this. Need to know the whole story. Otherwise I will back off and buy and buy a Sinn. They are quiete popular here and also reach high prices in resales. When googling for the Tockr brand, I saw this discussion here and thats why I registered and joined the conversation. But some members don't have manners. Accusing me of this and that. That's anything but nice and it doesn't eliminate any of the questionmarks in my mind. It even creates more questionmarks

Never heard of that site you mention above. Also I seriously doubt you’ll find one for 1/3 of the retail price. 1/3 off is more likely if that’s what you meant. If you are serious call an AD who can get you whatever model you want and at a discount. I can suggest one.
The Watches are legit and of good quality. If you like them and you get a price you are happy with, then buy one with peace of mind. I can put you in touch with an AD who ships free internationally. But again you can easily do that yourself. Easy enough to find out who sells what brand nowadays.
But if you have another agenda here I’d suggest coming out and telling us what you’re really after. The whole approach seems off and that’s why you see the reactions above.
Merde Alors! Et Vive Les Francais! :)

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Panerai7
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Panerai7 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:57 am

Heinz-D wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:37 am
toxicavenger wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:29 am
Panerai7 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:27 am
I'm not following what just happened. Ibrahim/Heinz, stolen parts, Sinn 142 design? What?
Yep. He is a middleman for watch companies. He then steals their parts and designs, resells them under his name brand.
Well this doesn't look like a Sinn 142. Sinn 142 is not so big. It has just 42mm of diameter. And how comes if it was stolen parts from Sinn, Tockr ends up selling them without stepping into trouble. I don't think that you are having an objective discussion about facts.
Sinn 142 is 44mm but that's besides the point.

So who's stealing parts and then rebrands them? I gotta see that picture

Heinz-D
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Heinz-D » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:00 am

Jeep99dad wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:52 am
Heinz-D wrote:
Jeep99dad wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:17 am
Hi
I own a Tockr, the Air Defender in blue. I find the quality to be very good and mine runs very well too. Its keeping great time. I know that the owner has to switch suppliers because of issues (discussed above). He is looking to put out new models, one soon and different sizes too. I like the new Panda Air Defender a lot. As for pricing, my AD was very fair and I’d suggest you cross-shop different ADs to get best price.
Well the watches look solid on some reviews but I didn't see any Air Defender models on that Signstimemovements site. Only the two models with the engine dials. The Chrono I didn't want anyhow. 1/3rd of the retailprice is fine for me. But still not feeling comfortable by buying this. Need to know the whole story. Otherwise I will back off and buy and buy a Sinn. They are quiete popular here and also reach high prices in resales. When googling for the Tockr brand, I saw this discussion here and thats why I registered and joined the conversation. But some members don't have manners. Accusing me of this and that. That's anything but nice and it doesn't eliminate any of the questionmarks in my mind. It even creates more questionmarks

Never heard of that site you mention above. Also I seriously doubt you’ll find one for 1/3 of the retail price. 1/3 off is more likely if that’s what you meant. If you are serious call an AD who can get you whatever model you want and at a discount. I can suggest one.
The Watches are legit and of good quality. If you like them and you get a price you are happy with, then buy one with peace of mind. I can put you in touch with an AD who ships free internationally. But again you can easily do that yourself. Easy enough to find out who sells what brand nowadays.
But if you have another agenda here I’d suggest coming out and telling us what you’re really after. The whole approach seems off and that’s why you see the reactions above.

You obviously didn't read the site and what it is about it. I recommend you to do so before assuming me having an agenda.
Here is the link again: www.tockr.net
As a fellow watchnerd I am just searching for answers.

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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by JBZ » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:06 am

Guy shows up on a watch board he's never visited before to discuss a microbrand with a limited following to "investigate" rumors about their supply chain by asking a bunch of random folks who have no special knowledge for "facts." Speaks in confusing non-sequiturs.

Seems completely innocent and legit to me.
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Heinz-D
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Heinz-D » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:10 am

JBZ wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:06 am
Guy shows up on a watch board he's never visited before to discuss a microbrand with a limited following to "investigate" rumors about their supply chain by asking a bunch of random folks who have no special knowledge for "facts." Speaks in confusing non-sequiturs.

Seems completely innocent and legit to me.
I came across this forum which I never even heard of because of Mr. Google who recommended me this. I was unable to to get Info from the Tockr guys and retailers and I thought which place can be better for this, than a watchforum. If I knew what kind of manners some members have I wouldn't have posted anything. Finally I don't get any real informations. Just accusations and tons of assumptions. And isn't the chance of a pricedifference of 65% enough motivation to investigate a bit? And I don't really care their supplychain. Just trying to figure out if these are watches with Original parts and why Tockr is possibly lying to you valuable members who bought the watch. If they are not lying, they could easily give an official statement. And that's it.
Last edited by Heinz-D on Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Panerai7
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Panerai7 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:13 am

Heinz-D wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:00 am
Jeep99dad wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:52 am
Heinz-D wrote:
Jeep99dad wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:17 am
Hi
I own a Tockr, the Air Defender in blue. I find the quality to be very good and mine runs very well too. Its keeping great time. I know that the owner has to switch suppliers because of issues (discussed above). He is looking to put out new models, one soon and different sizes too. I like the new Panda Air Defender a lot. As for pricing, my AD was very fair and I’d suggest you cross-shop different ADs to get best price.
Well the watches look solid on some reviews but I didn't see any Air Defender models on that Signstimemovements site. Only the two models with the engine dials. The Chrono I didn't want anyhow. 1/3rd of the retailprice is fine for me. But still not feeling comfortable by buying this. Need to know the whole story. Otherwise I will back off and buy and buy a Sinn. They are quiete popular here and also reach high prices in resales. When googling for the Tockr brand, I saw this discussion here and thats why I registered and joined the conversation. But some members don't have manners. Accusing me of this and that. That's anything but nice and it doesn't eliminate any of the questionmarks in my mind. It even creates more questionmarks

Never heard of that site you mention above. Also I seriously doubt you’ll find one for 1/3 of the retail price. 1/3 off is more likely if that’s what you meant. If you are serious call an AD who can get you whatever model you want and at a discount. I can suggest one.
The Watches are legit and of good quality. If you like them and you get a price you are happy with, then buy one with peace of mind. I can put you in touch with an AD who ships free internationally. But again you can easily do that yourself. Easy enough to find out who sells what brand nowadays.
But if you have another agenda here I’d suggest coming out and telling us what you’re really after. The whole approach seems off and that’s why you see the reactions above.

You obviously didn't read the site and what it is about it. I recommend you to do so before assuming me having an agenda.
Here is the link again: www.tockr.net
As a fellow watchnerd I am just searching for answers.
So is this your site in the link above?

JBZ
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by JBZ » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:16 am

Heinz-D wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:10 am
JBZ wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:06 am
Guy shows up on a watch board he's never visited before to discuss a microbrand with a limited following to "investigate" rumors about their supply chain by asking a bunch of random folks who have no special knowledge for "facts." Speaks in confusing non-sequiturs.

Seems completely innocent and legit to me.
I came across this forum which I never even heard of because of Mr. Google who recommended me this. I was unable to to get Info from the Tockr guys and retailers and I thought which place can be better for this, than a watchforum. If I knew what kind of manners some members have I wouldn't have posted anything. Finally I don't get any real informations. Just accusations and tons of assumptions
Well, Mr. Google can be pretty unreliable. You should have seen what he recommended when I searched for hot crossed buns.
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Heinz-D
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Heinz-D » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:19 am

Panerai7 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:13 am
Heinz-D wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:00 am
Jeep99dad wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:52 am
Heinz-D wrote:
Jeep99dad wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:17 am
Hi
I own a Tockr, the Air Defender in blue. I find the quality to be very good and mine runs very well too. Its keeping great time. I know that the owner has to switch suppliers because of issues (discussed above). He is looking to put out new models, one soon and different sizes too. I like the new Panda Air Defender a lot. As for pricing, my AD was very fair and I’d suggest you cross-shop different ADs to get best price.
Well the watches look solid on some reviews but I didn't see any Air Defender models on that Signstimemovements site. Only the two models with the engine dials. The Chrono I didn't want anyhow. 1/3rd of the retailprice is fine for me. But still not feeling comfortable by buying this. Need to know the whole story. Otherwise I will back off and buy and buy a Sinn. They are quiete popular here and also reach high prices in resales. When googling for the Tockr brand, I saw this discussion here and thats why I registered and joined the conversation. But some members don't have manners. Accusing me of this and that. That's anything but nice and it doesn't eliminate any of the questionmarks in my mind. It even creates more questionmarks

Never heard of that site you mention above. Also I seriously doubt you’ll find one for 1/3 of the retail price. 1/3 off is more likely if that’s what you meant. If you are serious call an AD who can get you whatever model you want and at a discount. I can suggest one.
The Watches are legit and of good quality. If you like them and you get a price you are happy with, then buy one with peace of mind. I can put you in touch with an AD who ships free internationally. But again you can easily do that yourself. Easy enough to find out who sells what brand nowadays.
But if you have another agenda here I’d suggest coming out and telling us what you’re really after. The whole approach seems off and that’s why you see the reactions above.

You obviously didn't read the site and what it is about it. I recommend you to do so before assuming me having an agenda.
Here is the link again: www.tockr.net
As a fellow watchnerd I am just searching for answers.
So is this your site in the link above?
I don't have any websites. Not this one, not others. In my age you don't learn these kind of things so easily

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Chocodove
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Chocodove » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:21 am

Image
- Todd

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Jeep99dad
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Jeep99dad » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:38 am

Heinz-D wrote:
Jeep99dad wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:52 am
Heinz-D wrote:
Jeep99dad wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:17 am
Hi
I own a Tockr, the Air Defender in blue. I find the quality to be very good and mine runs very well too. Its keeping great time. I know that the owner has to switch suppliers because of issues (discussed above). He is looking to put out new models, one soon and different sizes too. I like the new Panda Air Defender a lot. As for pricing, my AD was very fair and I’d suggest you cross-shop different ADs to get best price.
Well the watches look solid on some reviews but I didn't see any Air Defender models on that Signstimemovements site. Only the two models with the engine dials. The Chrono I didn't want anyhow. 1/3rd of the retailprice is fine for me. But still not feeling comfortable by buying this. Need to know the whole story. Otherwise I will back off and buy and buy a Sinn. They are quiete popular here and also reach high prices in resales. When googling for the Tockr brand, I saw this discussion here and thats why I registered and joined the conversation. But some members don't have manners. Accusing me of this and that. That's anything but nice and it doesn't eliminate any of the questionmarks in my mind. It even creates more questionmarks

Never heard of that site you mention above. Also I seriously doubt you’ll find one for 1/3 of the retail price. 1/3 off is more likely if that’s what you meant. If you are serious call an AD who can get you whatever model you want and at a discount. I can suggest one.
The Watches are legit and of good quality. If you like them and you get a price you are happy with, then buy one with peace of mind. I can put you in touch with an AD who ships free internationally. But again you can easily do that yourself. Easy enough to find out who sells what brand nowadays.
But if you have another agenda here I’d suggest coming out and telling us what you’re really after. The whole approach seems off and that’s why you see the reactions above.

You obviously didn't read the site and what it is about it. I recommend you to do so before assuming me having an agenda.
Here is the link again: www.tockr.net
As a fellow watchnerd I am just searching for answers.
I didn’t assume anything.
I am actually the only one who answered you with respect and discussed the Watch and offered to point you to an AD to help you.
That link was NOT in the message I replied to earlier.
Well then you have a great day.
Bye Image
Merde Alors! Et Vive Les Francais! :)

Heinz-D
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Name: Heinz

Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Heinz-D » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:53 am

Yes you were kind to me and gave me feedback based on your first hand experience. Not exactly the information which I hoped to find here but still, I thank you very much. Have a great day

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Panerai7
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Panerai7 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:08 pm

Heinz-D wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:53 am
Yes you were kind to me and gave me feedback based on your first hand experience. Not exactly the information which I hoped to find here but still, I thank you very much. Have a great day
So what is the problem? These people white label watches for private brands. Gruman is one of them. So I guess Tokr watches are made by these guys as well? Did you think there's such a thing as Tokr factory in some little village in Swiss Alps? Did you know Nike doesn't own a single shoe factory? And the employees in China work 3rd shift to sell shit on Alibaba and Aliexpress branded as Nike. People call it fake Nike, but they're not fake, they're just made at night the exact same way without Nike's approval...


SignSinternational B.V.
Lawickes Allee 85A, 6702DA, Wageningen, the Netherlands.

You want a real Swiss watch - get a Rolex. Otherwise you start digging and you won't find anything you wanted to find

Heinz-D
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Heinz-D » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:17 pm

Nothing wrong about it at all. Just why need to lie about this? Tockr claimed to be producing dials and cases with a company called TEC EBauches. Better tell nothing than such a lie. I would have been perfectly fine with the fact that they buy in asia but keep their mouth shut and don't tell anything about their supplychain. Is it just me who creates such a sensitivity agains such a behaviour? Seems not. Only in this group you seem to be fine when you pay for swiss and just get asian stuff.

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raf42
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by raf42 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:17 pm

Heinz-D wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:53 am
Yes you were kind to me and gave me feedback based on your first hand experience. Not exactly the information which I hoped to find here but still, I thank you very much. Have a great day
Huh? You asked:
Heinz-D wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:15 am
Did somebody buy a Tockr watch? How does the quality feel?
He responded in detail with answers to those exact questions and that's "Not exactly the information which I hoped to find here"? :shrug:

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Panerai7
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Panerai7 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:21 pm

Heinz-D wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:17 pm
Nothing wrong about it at all. Just why need to lie about this? Tockr claimed to be producing dials and cases with a company called TEC EBauches. Better tell nothing than such a lie. I would have been perfectly fine with the fact that they buy in asia but keep their mouth shut and don't tell anything about their supplychain. Is it just me who creates such a sensitivity agains such a behaviour? Seems not. Only in this group you seem to be fine when you pay for swiss and just get asian stuff.
I hate to call you naive but do you really think there's any watch with "swiss made" printed on the dial for that kinda money that's really made in Switzerland start to finish? Come on. The Swiss movement cost always outweighs the rest of the watch so they can call it Swiss Made, that's all.

Heinz-D
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Heinz-D » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:32 pm

raf42 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:17 pm
Heinz-D wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:53 am
Yes you were kind to me and gave me feedback based on your first hand experience. Not exactly the information which I hoped to find here but still, I thank you very much. Have a great day
Huh? You asked:
Heinz-D wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:15 am
Did somebody buy a Tockr watch? How does the quality feel?
He responded in detail with answers to those exact questions and that's "Not exactly the information which I hoped to find here"? :shrug:
I was hoping to find someone who can tell me that the Tockr watch which they bought, feels and wears like a high quality swiss watch. Like an Omega or Rolex. Because when you pay a 2500USD on a no name Microbrand watch, which claims that their manufacturer is the same like a multimillion dollar Manufacture Royal watches, yes sir, then I create a high expectation. But then, I feel scammed when I just get a medium end watch which is about the same qualitylevel like a better Tissot. I did not get any info from the supplier and from their retailers and also not from my fellow watchnerds. That is why I am telling you that I did not get the information which I was looking for. I am not convinced for Tockr and I am not willing to buy it from the dutch either.

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Ryeguy
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Ryeguy » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:32 pm

OK - I think I've translated this crazy conversation into a logical sequence:
1) Heinze-D reports to be interested in a Tockr watch
2) Heinze-D comes here with no intro to ask about http://tockr.net/, which appears to be a bash website to highlight the fact someone else is selling Tockr watch designs at a significant discount.
3) Confusion ensues.

I honestly don't care about any of it. It sounds like Tockr had some watches made by some third party called Signs Time Movements. Sign Time Movements either had extra cases made or Tockr didn't take all that were ordered, so they are now selling them under their own brand. Happens all the time in micro-land. You can buy a Kobold Seal or a West Coast Times Seal, or a CREPAS TACTICO TC-1. They are pretty much all the same watch.

@ Heinz-D - just buy a Seiko.

Heinz-D
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Heinz-D » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:36 pm

Panerai7 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:21 pm
Heinz-D wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:17 pm
Nothing wrong about it at all. Just why need to lie about this? Tockr claimed to be producing dials and cases with a company called TEC EBauches. Better tell nothing than such a lie. I would have been perfectly fine with the fact that they buy in asia but keep their mouth shut and don't tell anything about their supplychain. Is it just me who creates such a sensitivity agains such a behaviour? Seems not. Only in this group you seem to be fine when you pay for swiss and just get asian stuff.
I hate to call you naive but do you really think there's any watch with "swiss made" printed on the dial for that kinda money that's really made in Switzerland start to finish? Come on. The Swiss movement cost always outweighs the rest of the watch so they can call it Swiss Made, that's all.
Well you make my mouth watering with Manufacture Royal, then I expect a 100% swiss components. Because brands such as this, don't have asian parts. And finally telling nothing about your source is nothing bad. Simply don't tell Manufacture Royal then we are fine. Then I can put you in a different category. Then I can imagine the quality which I have to expect at that pricelevel. But when you tell Manufacture Royal then I expect quality like Patek or Breguet. And suddenly your price of 2500USD becomes a bargain. But as it is now, it is anything but a bargain

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Ryeguy
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Ryeguy » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:39 pm

...and just to add, $1,800 for a Tockr watch?!

I had no idea these were going for almost $2K! Personally, at the $2K price point I would be looking at other candidates. Sinn definitely comes to mind.

@Eric - what was that chrono you bought from that micro brand guy in Switzerland this past winter? If I remember correctly, that was about $2K and looked like a really nice watch, plus the owner was willing to work with us on group buys, etc.

Heinz-D
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Heinz-D » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:40 pm

Ryeguy wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:32 pm
OK - I think I've translated this crazy conversation into a logical sequence:
1) Heinze-D reports to be interested in a Tockr watch
2) Heinze-D comes here with no intro to ask about http://tockr.net/, which appears to be a bash website to highlight the fact someone else is selling Tockr watch designs at a significant discount.
3) Confusion ensues.

I honestly don't care about any of it. It sounds like Tockr had some watches made by some third party called Signs Time Movements. Sign Time Movements either had extra cases made or Tockr didn't take all that were ordered, so they are now selling them under their own brand. Happens all the time in micro-land. You can buy a Kobold Seal or a West Coast Times Seal, or a CREPAS TACTICO TC-1. They are pretty much all the same watch.

@ Heinz-D - just buy a Seiko.
You seem to miss the point. It's not about bashing Tockr or making advertisement for others. You just don't create high expectations and a goodwill to pay 2500USD for a watch which most likely not worth that money. As easy as that. It is about the feeling when you realize that you overpaid a watch because the quality is not as promised. And thanks for the advice and in fact I do own some Ananta Seikos and a Grand Seiko, which BTW is excellent in matters of quality.

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ericf4
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by ericf4 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:41 pm

brellum......IMO a far more luxurious watch and SUPER reputable owner etc....Diff league IMO.
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Heinz-D
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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by Heinz-D » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:43 pm

Ryeguy wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:39 pm
...and just to add, $1,800 for a Tockr watch?!

I had no idea these were going for almost $2K! Personally, at the $2K price point I would be looking at other candidates. Sinn definitely comes to mind.

@Eric - what was that chrono you bought from that micro brand guy in Switzerland this past winter? If I remember correctly, that was about $2K and looked like a really nice watch, plus the owner was willing to work with us on group buys, etc.
Bravo, you got my point. The Rectangular shaped Tockr which I was interested in, costs 2500USD. The Chrono was first at 2k then later they realized that this price doesnt work, they simply reduced. I saw a review from Maverick on youtube where the price was at 2k. And all of the comments were like: Nah, I'll quit!! They saw that it was difficult to sell at that price and they reduced to 1500USD

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Re: Tockr Air Defender

Post by ericf4 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:48 pm

the brellum is among my most high quality pieces i own for sure, i felt like i got 10x more value than the price.
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