Seaforth GMT tomorrow

[JDC222]

Well, apologies for another stressful experience for whoever tried to purchase one. The GMTs were produced long before the interest in the Seaforth blew up, so there were never many to begin with (a little under 100 pieces). I've been posting that quantities are pretty severely limited consistently on Instagram, but I guess I made a mistake in not reiterating on the order page that they would be tough to get. They're only being sold now because I had to redo the GMT hand (which, as I've read, many of you dislike). The subsequent batch of Seaforths was made available via pre-order, which I think alleviated the circus situation and made it much easier to buy a watch.

I didn't want to allocate all the GMTs privately to give folks a fair shot at getting one. Looks like I should have just done it privately, judging from the same sort of comments from folks who weren't able to get one. As for the cart sniping, etc....it was a little under 4000 people on the site at both order open times, vying for 100 pieces. I think the people who had the fastest internet connections and who had preloaded their Paypal info were the successful ones.

I think all comments are welcome and fair, including the ones about me not knowing how to run a business, that you're moving on from the brand, etc. etc. But I have to call one out: Andrea, don't call me a douche on the interwebs, or accuse me of making a "douche move". Obviously you can type whatever you want, but I would like to think that I'd afford you a little more respect if we traded places.

Again, truly sorry for any stress the process caused. I kind of fixed the buying process with the pre-order, but this batch was funny in that they were already made in a quantity that made sense at the time.

Hi Dave. Why you do this?

Jason
HALIOS

Sorry bro, it wasn’t at this point when I sent you the link...

...I owe you coffee, or maybe a whisky or two!

There isn't anything written here to be sorry for. Seriously. It's simple feedback from people who were trying to give money to a vendor for goods. Seems all here are being as open and honest as any thread here at dwc. Frankly it's been very civil sounding. Opinions stated and that's about it.

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That’s not what my sorry was for. I sent Jason the link to the discussion (yes Matt, this is a discussion thread) earlier on, so he could read and respond to the comments.

No one likes to see their clients disappointed in their products or their business, hence my apology ...more of a “sorry you had to read that”.

[Seppia]

No one likes to see their clients disappointed in their products or their business, hence my apology ...more of a “sorry you had to read that”.

As someone working in sales, I personally always want to hear from my customers what isn’t working.
Negative feedback is more important than positive.

I always tell my team when they whine about bitchy customers that positive feedback is what keeps you motivated, but negative feedback is what makes you better.

My experience tells me that when you have one or two people complaining about something, they are usually entitled whiners, but when a large amount of people are complaining, you have a problem you need to fix.

[JDC222]

No one likes to see their clients disappointed in their products or their business, hence my apology ...more of a “sorry you had to read that”.

As someone working in sales, I personally always want to hear from my customers what isn’t working.
Negative feedback is more important than positive.

I always tell my team when they whine about bitchy customers that positive feedback is what keeps you motivated, but negative feedback is what makes you better.

My experience tells me that when you have one or two people complaining about something, they are usually entitled whiners, but when a large amount of people are complaining, you have a problem you need to fix.

Lost in translation… I fully agree with what you are saying and it is necessary to hear and listen to negative feedback...but no one enjoys it.

[Seppia]

Oh I wasn’t disagreeing with you, I was kind of expanding on your point

[tmw]

Win some, lose some, breathe in, breathe out.

There will always be the next watch.

Jason has to do what works for him.

We all have to buy what works for us.

If the two meet, great. If not, there will be others and other opportunities. I didn’t get, but I do have preorders in for the next round.

The challenge is Jason’s products are hot right now. It’s taken him several years, and yes I bought when halios just started and we all had great things to say.

There are many business options for him, with varying risk rewards for him as he builds the brand. Does he strike while hot? Raise prices? Make more? How can he keep the balance of supply and demand? Change the buying process (lottery, reward systems, etc?).The credit is he is trying different things and will find the right combo of sales, reach and customer satisfaction.

Jason has this issue. Ming has this issue. Both great watches and growing brands that sell quickly. They have proven so far to be more than one or other short term hit wonders (and I am sure we can all name some of them).

I wish I got one. Wish the process worked for me. But, I know there are plenty more watches out there and many more “hot” ones coming.

[Joeprez]

To all the economy and finance and sales and marketing professionals posting opinions on how Jason should run his business, never forget to ask the client what are his goals. Clearly Jason has received a lot of feedback since the Seaforth came out, but it appears that he likes his business model as it is (pretty similar to a lot of other goods that we like here like limited knives and other shit that sell out quick).

If he wanted to expand, he would need capital and extra help, and that’s a headache that apparently he doesn’t want to deal with.

My only recommendation would be to raise the prices to stop the speculators trying to make a quick buck (Jason you can keep a list like Porsche or Ferrari and stop selling to those speculators).

No need to write off the brand just for this, grab one used and enjoy it!


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[tmw]

If this were easy, anyone would be doing it.

[ericf4]

If this were easy, anyone would be doing it.

Many are that shouldn't. Lol. Lots of shit brands out there. Not referring to Jason here though. Just shit micros in general of which there are plenty.

That reminds me, I gotta hop online at 2am to grab a Bagelsport. Lol. Hope I can get in.

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[JDC222]

If this were easy, anyone would be doing it.

Many are that shouldn't. Lol. Lots of shit brands out there. Not referring to Jason here though. Just shit micros in general of which there are plenty.

That reminds me, I gotta hop online at 2am to grab a Bagelsport. Lol. Hope I can get in.

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Make sure you get the free lox!!

[ericf4]

Never tough to get a Bagelsport. Likely a free dog shit smear too.

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[ericf4]

Or get this and call it a day. Lololol. No thx.

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[Grahamcombat]

Well, apologies for another stressful experience for whoever tried to purchase one. The GMTs were produced long before the interest in the Seaforth blew up, so there were never many to begin with (a little under 100 pieces). I've been posting that quantities are pretty severely limited consistently on Instagram, but I guess I made a mistake in not reiterating on the order page that they would be tough to get. They're only being sold now because I had to redo the GMT hand (which, as I've read, many of you dislike). The subsequent batch of Seaforths was made available via pre-order, which I think alleviated the circus situation and made it much easier to buy a watch.

I didn't want to allocate all the GMTs privately to give folks a fair shot at getting one. Looks like I should have just done it privately, judging from the same sort of comments from folks who weren't able to get one. As for the cart sniping, etc....it was a little under 4000 people on the site at both order open times, vying for 100 pieces. I think the people who had the fastest internet connections and who had preloaded their Paypal info were the successful ones.

I think all comments are welcome and fair, including the ones about me not knowing how to run a business, that you're moving on from the brand, etc. etc. But I have to call one out: Andrea, don't call me a douche on the interwebs, or accuse me of making a "douche move". Obviously you can type whatever you want, but I would like to think that I'd afford you a little more respect if we traded places.

Again, truly sorry for any stress the process caused. I kind of fixed the buying process with the pre-order, but this batch was funny in that they were already made in a quantity that made sense at the time.

Hi Dave. Why you do this?

Jason
HALIOS

Sorry bro, it wasn’t at this point when I sent you the link...

...I owe you coffee, or maybe a whisky or two!

There isn't anything written here to be sorry for. Seriously. It's simple feedback from people who were trying to give money to a vendor for goods. Seems all here are being as open and honest as any thread here at dwc. Frankly it's been very civil sounding. Opinions stated and that's about it.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

That’s not what my sorry was for. I sent Jason the link to the discussion (yes Matt, this is a discussion thread) earlier on, so he could read and respond to the comments.

No one likes to see their clients disappointed in their products or their business, hence my apology ...more of a “sorry you had to read that”.

Thank you! Answering for a friend.

[hoppyjr]

Hi Jason

[Steelman]

There is no easy answer to this problem. Same with certain custom knives, shaving brushes, etc.

Pre-announcing a time to order seems the most fair way to do it. I guess a raffle would be another.

Let's be thankful Jason makes product that's worth the hassle.

[mattcantwin]

Maybe off topic, but I'd like to thank Jason for the easy no-issue cancellation and refund he provided on my pre-order.


Never anticipated a trip to Florida would result in the U1-P purchase.

[ericf4]

Maybe off topic, but I'd like to thank Jason for the easy no-issue cancellation and refund he provided on my pre-order.


Never anticipated a trip to Florida would result in the U1-P purchase.

That's very cool. Good service.

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[gwells]

It is highly unlikely Jason even looks at the watch before it gets shipped to the buyer.

unless things have changed, i'm pretty sure he does QC them all before sending out. not "MKII reject 98.2% of everything that comes in so it takes 10 years to make a watch" QC, but nobody really does that kind of QC, including MKII.

[toxicavenger]

jason, don't you owe me a coffee and some boom-boom?

[mattcantwin]

jason, don't you owe me a coffee and some boom-boom?

TOP DEFINITION

boom boom

The term "boom boom" is most often associated with south east asian countries such as Thailand, Cambodia, or Laos and
is used to describe the act of intercourse, usually that which is purchased by males frequenting brothels and whorehouses in those locations.

The term is thought to have been created by prostitutes possessing limited english language ability; ie- it is far easier for a non english speaking Thai prostitute to say "You go boom boom"? than it is for her to say "Would you like to go make completely unemotional and detached love with me"?

[Ryeguy]

It is highly unlikely Jason even looks at the watch before it gets shipped to the buyer.

unless things have changed, i'm pretty sure he does QC them all before sending out. not "MKII reject 98.2% of everything that comes in so it takes 10 years to make a watch" QC, but nobody really does that kind of QC, including MKII.

Maybe he does. I'm probably speaking too broadly.

My assumption is most micro brands which leverage contract manufacturing receive finished watches already assembled and packaged in inner and outer boxes ready for shipping to the end customer. CREPAS in the past has posted photos of dozens of outer boxes piled high ready for shipping. My assumption is the packaging of the assembled watches into their shipping boxes is part of the contract with the manufacturing company (Fullswing, etc.).

Assuming a micro (especially a one man shop such as Halios) receives 100 or 200 (or more) watches from their contract manufacturer, it seems unreasonable to expect them to open each box, visually inspect each watch, then repackage it for shipping.

Micros such as MKii (at least on their "bench crafted" models) and OWC source parts independently and assemble the parts locally, so they have the ability to inspect each watch. I don't think Jason ever claimed to follow these types of models.

Evidence supporting my assumption are the SNAFU's suffered by CREPAS with their model that was shipped without a movement ring and all those Steinhart GMT watches with miss-set GMT hands. Even a brief inspection would've caught those defects, yet they still made it to the customer.

The micro brand owner puts a ton of faith in their contract manufacturer. Their business depends upon it as evidenced by the thrashing CREPAS received for their dud even after delivering multiple successful models in the past. Their reputation still hasn't recovered.

[gwells]

i don't know how far his QC goes, obviously not to the point of disassembly, but i'm sure i've read jason talking about doing a visual QC on every watch. and that may be part of the reason for the lower volume as well. he's done this with most of his releases. they come out in smaller batches. i'm sure some of that is limiting financial risk, but it may also have something to do with QC volume as well.

and this may be born out by the lack of QC complaints that tend to plague many of the other micros that don't seem to have been an issue with halios. the worst thing i remember seeing (and i experienced it myself) is that the end links for the tropik bracelet are extremely tight and that makes it difficult to change in and out of the bracelet.

[dnslater]

I’m sure he visually inspects them at all he very least. Also repackages them, etc.

[Seppia]

the SNAFU's suffered by CREPAS with their model that was shipped without a movement ring.

CUT

The micro brand owner puts a ton of faith in their contract manufacturer. Their business depends upon it as evidenced by the thrashing CREPAS received for their dud even after delivering multiple successful models in the past. Their reputation still hasn't recovered.

OT/

Are you talking about the Tactico Anko?
The issue there wasn’t the fact that the watch shipped without movement holder, but the fact that they refused to own their mistake and fix it for those who had a misaligned-shifting dial.
I’m not surprised their reputation hasn’t recovered.
Everybody has a snafu sooner or later, those who own it and take care of their customers are those who stay in business long term.

[BSears]

I don't understand why people think they are entitled to buy a watch, just because they have the desire and the money to own said watch. That's not how the world works sometimes. Also, people getting upset because a sales model is not to their liking makes me chuckle.

I haven’t read all comments yet but this ^^^ is exactly what I’ve been thinking as I’ve read thru thus far. I keep waiting to hear some horror story, but I’m not seeing it. So only 100 watches of a particular color/style were available, but 4,000 people were vying for them? That’s called supply/demand and is every bit if capitalism. Maybe some of you (or maybe none of you but plenty of others) are super duper butt hurt because your belief is that everyone should get one is just not how the world works. My suggestion is start the refresh screen game on watch recon or the various and sundry sales fora.

[BSears]

Very cool Jason posted here, that said the whole scenario is a joke. For me, I tried twice and struck out twice. Now I'm done. I gave it a shot. I've never owned a halios and now won't buy one unless it's from a flip as I won't waste my time again on a terrible buying process.

I tend to agree w above comment that Jason knows what he's doing, this isn't the first nor last time this will happen. As such, he will get lots written about his brand. Loved, hated but never ignored sort of scenario it seems.

Shame as as there are plenty of well qualified buyers like me new to the brand who he's pushing away with experiences like this. But, it doesn't matter as the frenzy created will sustain his needs. He doesn't need me or other new clients. He can sell 100 watches a pop with his eyes closed, a terrible buying process etc. Hey, all I can say is I tried, it didn't work and my money goes elsewhere. All good.





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Wtf is a “well qualified buyer”?? Are you leasing or financing? Oh you mean you could easily spend several hundred dollars on a different luxury item instead of this but tried (twice) to buy this luxury item? That is a pretty douchy statement if I’ve ever read/heard one.