Help needed with potential buyer

[tattoo chef]

You just reiterated that “the risk is very real” and the answer is not to deal with the guy, but you did.

I hope it works out for you, but if it doesn’t it’s because you ignored the good advice provided here.

The guy can dispute up to six months from now. I’ve been burned this way and won’t do it again. In fact, I turned down a sale this morning.

No he can’t. He can only dispute up to 6 months on a sale. Since it was sent as a gift, he can’t do that.

Now, as others have said, he can claim that his account was hacked etc.

He can also claim to PayPal he didn’t get item and then they will look at sellers account and see he sold an item without PayPal getting their fees and that is a big deal to them and they can suspend or cancel your account if they want to.

In the end, to the OP, none sounds worth it.

Cancel the sale and re-list on WUS or put on eBay and just charge enough to cover eBay and PayPal fees.


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Don - it’s still six months. The account holder can claim the account was used without permission and the transaction is reversed. As Terry previously mentioned, PayPal “friends & family” has zero protection for a seller - and I’ve been burned by it in the past.

You could attempt to open a dispute but you can’t say it was for a good or service, as it was a gift payment.
You could attempt a charge back or file a dispute with your credit card if you used one.

PayPal will not intervene and refund gift payments though unless proof of fraud.


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[hoppyjr]

You just reiterated that “the risk is very real” and the answer is not to deal with the guy, but you did.

I hope it works out for you, but if it doesn’t it’s because you ignored the good advice provided here.

The guy can dispute up to six months from now. I’ve been burned this way and won’t do it again. In fact, I turned down a sale this morning.

No he can’t. He can only dispute up to 6 months on a sale. Since it was sent as a gift, he can’t do that.

Now, as others have said, he can claim that his account was hacked etc.

He can also claim to PayPal he didn’t get item and then they will look at sellers account and see he sold an item without PayPal getting their fees and that is a big deal to them and they can suspend or cancel your account if they want to.

In the end, to the OP, none sounds worth it.

Cancel the sale and re-list on WUS or put on eBay and just charge enough to cover eBay and PayPal fees.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don - it’s still six months. The account holder can claim the account was used without permission and the transaction is reversed. As Terry previously mentioned, PayPal “friends & family” has zero protection for a seller - and I’ve been burned by it in the past.

You could attempt to open a dispute but you can’t say it was for a good or service, as it was a gift payment.
You could attempt a charge back or file a dispute with your credit card if you used one.

PayPal will not intervene and refund gift payments though unless proof of fraud.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We can agree to disagree. I’ve personally been on the receiving end of a “gift” payment that was reversed. The other party simply claimed the account was used without permission and the payment was reversed. I don’t care to argue the point, I know what I’ve experienced.

[KidKeith]

And now I'm on WUS...

[tattoo chef]

You just reiterated that “the risk is very real” and the answer is not to deal with the guy, but you did.

I hope it works out for you, but if it doesn’t it’s because you ignored the good advice provided here.

The guy can dispute up to six months from now. I’ve been burned this way and won’t do it again. In fact, I turned down a sale this morning.

No he can’t. He can only dispute up to 6 months on a sale. Since it was sent as a gift, he can’t do that.

Now, as others have said, he can claim that his account was hacked etc.

He can also claim to PayPal he didn’t get item and then they will look at sellers account and see he sold an item without PayPal getting their fees and that is a big deal to them and they can suspend or cancel your account if they want to.

In the end, to the OP, none sounds worth it.

Cancel the sale and re-list on WUS or put on eBay and just charge enough to cover eBay and PayPal fees.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don - it’s still six months. The account holder can claim the account was used without permission and the transaction is reversed. As Terry previously mentioned, PayPal “friends & family” has zero protection for a seller - and I’ve been burned by it in the past.

You could attempt to open a dispute but you can’t say it was for a good or service, as it was a gift payment.
You could attempt a charge back or file a dispute with your credit card if you used one.

PayPal will not intervene and refund gift payments though unless proof of fraud.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We can agree to disagree. I’ve personally been on the receiving end of a “gift” payment that was reversed. The other party simply claimed the account was used without permission and the payment was reversed. I don’t care to argue the point, I know what I’ve experienced.

We are saying the same thing. All I meant was it is not the normal claim the item didn’t arrive or it was damaged etc and PayPal will refund.

Yes, the my can always claim account used without permission and have the charges reversed.

I’ve had it happen to me as well, until i found a pic of the person on Facebook with the watch and showed it to PayPal and that it was not an unauthorized charge. That got me in some trouble as they said it was not a goods and services payment but I played dumb and talked myself my way out of it claiming I didn’t know he sent it that way and just didn’t pay attention. I did get away unscathed that time.


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[Marjak]

I sold a watch about 7 months ago to a guy in Honduras of al places. Found the add through WUS but had zero posts. He used his brother's PP and paid F&F. Lot's of red flags but we emailed back and forth quite a bit and he just gave me the impression he was a good kid so I send the watch. No issues and all went well. He was so happy and send me pics of him wearing it. It was an affordable watch and I wouldn't have lost sleep over it if it got lost. Just saying...

[r.palace]

Twice I've sold to people with 0 posts. Also, both times they were international transactions.

Maybe I lucked out but both times I required the buyer to pay G&S and I verified their names matched the paying account.

One of the buyers had an extensive positive eBay history and we corresponded a bit over his eBay messenger. The other guy, I did my due diligence and found him on many other car forums. Looked up his sales deals and all were positive.

Doesn't seem like you've looked this person up enough.

I'd call this deal off, personally. But then again who knows, you might luck out.

[manitoujoe]

I sold a watch about 7 months ago to a guy in Honduras of al places. Found the add through WUS but had zero posts. He used his brother's PP and paid F&F. Lot's of red flags but we emailed back and forth quite a bit and he just gave me the impression he was a good kid so I send the watch. No issues and all went well. He was so happy and send me pics of him wearing it. It was an affordable watch and I wouldn't have lost sleep over it if it got lost. Just saying...

^^ I'm thinking THIS. The guy is in Chicago. He's said he's using his Dad's PP and paid F&F. Same flags, but he's sending me emails asking about Glycines I've liked, what watches he thinks are cool, what's next on my purchase list. I have no idea if he's legit, but the vibe is that he's just new. But who knows?

Since the first PM, he's been more active on the site. Yes, he's at 12 posts now.

I did a LinkedIn check (also recommended here), and the guy's name is Korean. He gave a Chicago address. Which is to the Korean Consulate in Chicago, where he's listed as an Economic Officer. In his subsequent posts on WUS, he talks about Korea.

After the advice here, this was my PM to him:

Ok. Would you happen to have done sales on eBay? That would be good for references if you have it.

If not, you can send the funds via PayPal friends and family. The main concern is that I’ve been burned a couple times in the past by new people who withdrew funds from the PayPal account after receiving the watch.

I have many references here at WUS and other sites. And I do not want you to be concerned that I think you would do anything like that. At the end of the day, watches are supposed to be fun and cool.

This was his response:

That sounds painful. I almost got scammed on craigslist once and trying not to hang out there or on ebay.

I do realize sending "friends and family" is final, but as I have zero posts and credential I understand your concerns 100%. On the other hand, I see that you have dealt faithfully with many buyers over the past, so I will accept your proposal.

Please provide me with the link or your paypal information, and I will send the payment as you ready the watch to be shipped.

And he did. The account was his Dad's. Red Flag. So I wrote him about it.

Hello Mark,

I just sent $600 via Paypal. It is under the name Sung Hwan Lim. It was my father's old account and I've been trying to get the name changed for days to no avail. In any case, the money does come from my bank and it will be available in a few days.

Bottom line, PayPal has a history of siding with the buyers. So Seller's Protection is not always a real thing. I've heard nightmares about that. So at the time I wrote this post, F&F was the prevailing wisdom. I just want to do this as safely as possible.

Does this clear up anything or make it worse? (Sorry for the long reply.)

[ChuckW]

Guy sounds like a real nutbar. I wouldn't walk away from this deal, I'd run like hell.

[deepcdvr]

I wouldn’t sweat it - I’ve ran into all kinds of nut jobs on WUS.. as long as you have the funds in hand, I’d ship the watch. Many have tried to scam me over the years, but none have sent funds; they always try to get you to ship something without ever actually paying.

[Denizen]

I sold a watch about 7 months ago to a guy in Honduras of al places. Found the add through WUS but had zero posts. He used his brother's PP and paid F&F. Lot's of red flags but we emailed back and forth quite a bit and he just gave me the impression he was a good kid so I send the watch. No issues and all went well. He was so happy and send me pics of him wearing it. It was an affordable watch and I wouldn't have lost sleep over it if it got lost. Just saying...

^^ I'm thinking THIS. The guy is in Chicago. He's said he's using his Dad's PP and paid F&F. Same flags, but he's sending me emails asking about Glycines I've liked, what watches he thinks are cool, what's next on my purchase list. I have no idea if he's legit, but the vibe is that he's just new. But who knows?

Since the first PM, he's been more active on the site. Yes, he's at 12 posts now.

I did a LinkedIn check (also recommended here), and the guy's name is Korean. He gave a Chicago address. Which is to the Korean Consulate in Chicago, where he's listed as an Economic Officer. In his subsequent posts on WUS, he talks about Korea.

After the advice here, this was my PM to him:

Ok. Would you happen to have done sales on eBay? That would be good for references if you have it.

If not, you can send the funds via PayPal friends and family. The main concern is that I’ve been burned a couple times in the past by new people who withdrew funds from the PayPal account after receiving the watch.

I have many references here at WUS and other sites. And I do not want you to be concerned that I think you would do anything like that. At the end of the day, watches are supposed to be fun and cool.

This was his response:

That sounds painful. I almost got scammed on craigslist once and trying not to hang out there or on ebay.

I do realize sending "friends and family" is final, but as I have zero posts and credential I understand your concerns 100%. On the other hand, I see that you have dealt faithfully with many buyers over the past, so I will accept your proposal.

Please provide me with the link or your paypal information, and I will send the payment as you ready the watch to be shipped.

And he did. The account was his Dad's. Red Flag. So I wrote him about it.

Hello Mark,

I just sent $600 via Paypal. It is under the name Sung Hwan Lim. It was my father's old account and I've been trying to get the name changed for days to no avail. In any case, the money does come from my bank and it will be available in a few days.

Bottom line, PayPal has a history of siding with the buyers. So Seller's Protection is not always a real thing. I've heard nightmares about that. So at the time I wrote this post, F&F was the prevailing wisdom. I just want to do this as safely as possible.

Does this clear up anything or make it worse? (Sorry for the long reply.)

It may be it a bit more credible, but do you want to keep looking over your shoulder in case, the other shoe drops? My gut feeling leans toward legit, but in this crazy world...

I think you would have been better to ask for a USPS money order.

[Grahamcombat]

You have both the money and the watch. The only person that should be worried about getting screwed is the kid.

He’s done everything you’ve asked for.


Utah get me two!

[hoppyjr]

You have both the money and the watch. The only person that should be worried about getting screwed is the kid.

He’s done everything you’ve asked for.


Utah get me two!

Negative Ghost Rider. Once the guy receives his watch, he or “his dad” (who allegedly owns the account) can claim unauthorized use. They have up to six months to do this. PayPal will reverse the transaction and virtually always side with the sender. Since it was done as “Friends & Family” there isn’t even a hope of showing an item received by the other party and it would fall outside of “seller protection” rules anyway.

This is not a deal I would have done.

I would refund the payment and tell him to wire the money.

But OP won’t because he hasn’t listened to any of the good advice given thus far.

[Grahamcombat]

Oh (this is where I’m condescending) I thought that right now, not next week or six months from now - right now - he has both the watch AND the money.

What does the kid have right now? A promise that some guy - who has both the watch and the money - is going to mail the watch in good faith.

Right now, now, it’s the kid who has done everything asked. It’s the kid who is out everything. Everything is set up to screw the kid right now.


Utah get me two!

[hoppyjr]

Oh (this is where I’m condescending) I thought that right now, not next week or six months from now - right now - he has both the watch AND the money.

What does the kid have right now? A promise that some guy - who has both the watch and the money - is going to mail the watch in good faith.

Right now, now, it’s the kid who has done everything asked. It’s the kid who is out everything. Everything is set up to screw the kid right now.


Utah get me two!

Sure, but if he sends the watch there is a reasonable likelihood OP gets screwed. View it how you like.

[BacoNoir]

Time for Hoppy and Graham to settle this with a sword fight!
https://youtu.be/0XOKvFyNquM

[Grahamcombat]

Right now I view it like the kid is fucked.

A watch he paid for in good faith - following everything he’s been asked to do - sits, unshipped, while a bunch of people over analyze and prepare for something that - at this point - THE POINT WHERE THE KID DOESNT HAVE ANY ASSURANCES AT ALL THAT THE WATCH WILL EVER COME - go back and forth about what could potentially happen if the kid - who has never done a single thing to show malice or debauchery and only followed the directions - waits.

https://youtu.be/w1MkjmbdHUM

At some point you gotta roll with what you’ve got.

Utah get me two!

[hoppyjr]

Except the thread isn’t about the kid, it’s about one of our folks asking for advice on a deal. I couldn’t give half a fuck about what happens to the other guy.

[Grahamcombat]

So have our guy keep the money and the watch.

Win win.


Utah get me two!

[Grahamcombat]

And our guy, Hop, never took any of the advice from us. Our advice was, collectively, to walk away.

But he didn’t.

But that doesn’t mean that what our guy did require - which the kid has done - was done in bad faith by the kid.

The theme around here is the sky is falling, yet everything our guy asked for has been done.

Can the kid fuck him? Sure. But right now the kid is out everything. Is it a shady deal and probably shouldn’t have been done? Likely, as indicated, but our guy ignored all of that.

Our guy took the field. So now, with both money and watch in hand, our guy is the one with the power and still holds the watch.

So I go back to where I started: ship the watch, the kid did everything this shitshow cluster of a deal required.

Do I think this will end well? Not in the least, I give it about a 10% validity and that’s just because I happen to love Korean BBQ. But right now, all things being equal, our guy is the shady one.

Demands have been met, play the game.


Utah get me two!

[JP Chestnut]

^^^ I agree with Graham. I wouldn't have done the deal. However, it's done. Ship the watch or refund the money - either way, it should be done today.

[hoppyjr]

[Grahamcombat]

What going to be EPIC is, months from now, when this kid has the watch, gets the money back through a dispute, swaps the watch with a fake/homage and then SELLS THAT ONE based on screen caps of this sales post & deal!!

Awesome!! Korea strikes again!!!!


Utah get me two!

[Grahamcombat]

And if that happens I’m going to track that kid down, find him, and immediately give him a job.

Because you can’t teach that shit.



Utah get me two!

[Denizen]

Refund the money once it clears and either a wire or get a USPS money order.

Both sides get what they were after.

[gamecock111]

Few times I had issues were with tons of post guys that become a zero post guy ( or an idiot) the moment the watch ships




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