Sea King microbrand, yes another one.

[Bradystraps]

Mr. Potato Head watch made me laugh, and is the best analogy of most micro brands I've heard.

It is a good analogy and represents some of the Micros out there. I actually have a design team, including myself, that customizes parts I use in my watches. We produce drawings/renderings and discuss. I may like a hand set a manufacturer produces but want to tweak the design, size etc. so I would send them what I am looking for and then they prototype it for me until it is correct to my specifications. This is the part I refer to as "develop and design".

[logan2z]

At sub $500 though, who really cares? If the brand owner puts the Lego pieces together in a way I find appealing, I might buy it.

I completely agree with this. I have no issue with someone putting together a watch from the Fullswing buffet and selling it. More power to them. But be transparent about it and don't call yourself a watch designer.

Gerald Genta was a watch designer. He didn't fire up Solidworks or program a CNC machine (the Royal Oak was purportedly drawn on a napkin at a restaurant) but he designed watches. He came up with the case shapes, the dial designs, the crown designs, etc.

With a very few exceptions noted in this thread, micro-brands don't really do much, if anything, original and so the word designer does not apply to them IMO.

[dnslater]

At sub $500 though, who really cares? If the brand owner puts the Lego pieces together in a way I find appealing, I might buy it.

I completely agree with this. I have no issue with someone putting together a watch from the Fullswing buffet and selling it. More power to them. But be transparent about it and don't call yourself a watch designer.

Gerald Genta was a watch designer. He didn't fire up Solidworks or program a CNC machine (the Royal Oak was purportedly drawn on a napkin at a restaurant) but he designed watches. He came up with the case shapes, the dial designs, the crown designs, etc.

With a very few exceptions noted in this thread, micro-brands don't really do much, if anything, original and so the word designer does not apply to them IMO.

Yes. Special ordering a car with my chosen options and then putting a custom vinyl wrap on it does not make me a car designer and does not make my car bespoke. As someone who designs for a living, I know otherwise.

[gonzomantis]

Believe what you want to believe or what makes you feel good.


This topic was beaten to death years ago. The facts are that my Baltic Shield has completely different specifications than the Luxmento watch and is completely custom to me with the help of many forum members here that gave me tremendous input with the project.

Yup, beaten to death 2 years ago. Here is another link, for those who want the details.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f71/new-af ... 554-5.html

[HapaHapa]

This discussion has taken an elitist turn IMHO. I might choose parts from a catalogue and design a something to perform a task. I designed that system. I might not have designed every valve, flange, controller, pump, motor, pipe, etc. but I still designed that system.

[tattoo chef]

This discussion has taken an elitist turn IMHO. I might choose parts from a catalogue and design a something to perform a task. I designed that system. I might not have designed every valve, flange, controller, pump, motor, pipe, etc. but I still designed that system.

This discussion took that turn SOLEY because of Todd/Bradystraps.

He constantly has to interject about his brand in threads about other brands (as he did early on in this thread), but that wasn't enough and he needed to add about differences of microbrands and put himself in the design group when he is using catalog designs himself. He constantly is trying to tout his brand and put down other brands, be they established or upstart for doing the same thing he does, even though he wants us to believe different.

The issue is not about catalog watches, the issue is Todd.


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[logan2z]

This discussion has taken an elitist turn IMHO. I might choose parts from a catalogue and design a something to perform a task. I designed that system. I might not have designed every valve, flange, controller, pump, motor, pipe, etc. but I still designed that system.

At the risk of sounding elitist, I don't think that's really what were talking about when discussing micro-brand watches. Outside of the movements that are supplied by a movement supplier, these are not complex systems built from general-purpose components and put together in some unique way to solve a problem. These are simple objects assembled from pre-made, special-purpose parts (a case, a crown, a dial, and some hands) that can really only go together in one way. I don't see how selecting watch components from a catalog and putting them together in the only way possible can be compared to designing a system. There's no invention there.

[watches503]

This reminds me a lot of Chris Vail's unnecessary "contributions" to some threads of other brands. One thing every Microbrand owner should do is stay very far away from other Microbrand threads unless it is to show respects and/or compliments.

@Bradystraps,

When you start out like this...

...and you are sold out, you should just be thankful of your success and leave the comments to the regular folks that don't own a microbrand watch company. You're only going to turn off more people away from your brand if you continue down this path.





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[Bradystraps]

This discussion has taken an elitist turn IMHO. I might choose parts from a catalogue and design a something to perform a task. I designed that system. I might not have designed every valve, flange, controller, pump, motor, pipe, etc. but I still designed that system.

This discussion took that turn SOLEY because of Todd/Bradystraps.

He constantly has to interject about his brand in threads about other brands (as he did early on in this thread), but that wasn't enough and he needed to add about differences of microbrands and put himself in the design group when he is using catalog designs himself. He constantly is trying to tout his brand and put down other brands, be they established or upstart for doing the same thing he does, even though he wants us to believe different.

The issue is not about catalog watches, the issue is Todd.


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Couldn't be farther from the truth. Believe what you'd like though.

[Bradystraps]

This reminds me a lot of Chris Vail's unnecessary "contributions" to some threads of other brands. One thing every Microbrand owner should do is stay very far away from other Microbrand threads unless it is to show respects and/or compliments.

@Bradystraps,

When you start out like this...

...and you are sold out, you should just be thankful of your success and leave the comments to the regular folks that don't own a microbrand watch company. You're only going to turn off more people away from your brand if you continue down this path.





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The watch on the left is not my watch. But why let that get in the way of a juicy thread, right?

[watches503]

This reminds me a lot of Chris Vail's unnecessary "contributions" to some threads of other brands. One thing every Microbrand owner should do is stay very far away from other Microbrand threads unless it is to show respects and/or compliments.

@Bradystraps,

When you start out like this...

...and you are sold out, you should just be thankful of your success and leave the comments to the regular folks that don't own a microbrand watch company. You're only going to turn off more people away from your brand if you continue down this path.





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The watch on the left is not my watch. But why let that get in the way of a juicy thread, right?

Please don't think you can play with words and be smarter than the world.

That image on left was "designed" by you (or your team) and shared by you on a Facebook group.




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[watches503]

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[Bradystraps]

You win. I succumb.

[watches503]

You win. I succumb.

I win nothing. You win by staying away from Microbrand threads. You're not a regular joe like me. You are a brand. Act like a self respecting brand. Don't pretend your brand isn't what it isn't.

You said it your self here:



You are naming Luxmento as the original design.



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[Bradystraps]

You win. I succumb.

I win nothing. You win by staying away from Microbrand threads. You're not a regular joe like me. You are a brand. Act like a self respecting brand. Don't pretend your brand isn't what it isn't.

You said it your self here:



You are naming Luxmento as the original design.



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I clearly stated back years ago, and in this thread as well, that once I was made aware of the dial, I changed it to be my own design. And I contacted Luxmento to confirm so.

As for lecturing me on how to act, that's your freedom of speech right. But I have always tried my best to be respectful... as a brand, to my customers and in general. Not always going to do things 100% correctly but I do try.

Peace pipe?

[andrema]

I originally chose a dial that, unbeknownst to me at the time, was also being used by Luxmento.

You chose a dial? From a catalog perhaps? That sounds an awful lot like:

"Microbrands" that select a watch from the NOOB factory or alike catalog, come up with a "company" name and stick that name on the dial of the watch.

The dial, and bezel insert look remarkably similar too.

Those catalogs must be really big if it takes thousands of hours to go through them.

I chose my dial from a "catalog" and then customized it.
What I referring to when I said catalog watch was an entire watch that some choose and simply stick their name on it. NOOB and alike factories are sources for many of these types of watches.

I see, so it's not ok to choose an entire watch from a catalog but it is ok to choose a dial from the dial catalog, a case from the case catalog, a bezel from the bezel catalog, and a handset from the handset catalog and then call it your own - so essentially the Mr. Potato Head school of design.

And, just by chance, your watch ended up with the same parts as the Luxmento?

Thank goodness the people on this forum aren't half as stupid as you think they are.

Who said that? Not me.

I merely gave my opinion that there were two types of Microbrands. One that takes a catalog watch (entire watch) and puts their name on it and others that actually design and develop a different way. The latter takes much more time, money and thought process, IMO.

I apologize Andrew if I've offended you along the way somewhere. It certainly wasn't my intention.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. My idea of 'design and develop' is obviously very different than yours.

But to suggest that you somehow do things much differently (and, by inference, better) than other microbrands, when you're also selecting your components from a catalog and your initial design was virtually identical to an existing micro, is frankly disingenuous.

Yes, we will. You are entitled to your own opinion and nothing I can say will change your mind. Nowhere ever did I say I did things any better than anyone or any other company.
But I will tell you, your "facts" are flawed. Very flawed and not accurate. You are essentially accusing me of copying another Micro watch, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Shall we revisit that side by side pic comparing your watch to the other brand's rendering? Even if yours was a compressed version spec-wise, it's difficult to ignore that it had the exact same design. To infer or claim it was a custom creation is nothing short of misleading. Very few micro brands can assert that claim - Halios and Aegir come to mind.

I think you'd be a lot more successful here and elsewhere if you were more humble about the watches you're making. At the end of the day, they are inexpensive micros that will have a limited shelf life. There's a place for watches like that, but trying to insinuate something other than that will continue to get tempers flaring here. In case you haven't noticed, not everyone here is a sheep.

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Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[andrema]

That'd look good with an all black bezel

[streetracer101]

This discussion has taken an elitist turn IMHO. I might choose parts from a catalogue and design a something to perform a task. I designed that system. I might not have designed every valve, flange, controller, pump, motor, pipe, etc. but I still designed that system.

This discussion took that turn SOLEY because of Todd/Bradystraps.

He constantly has to interject about his brand in threads about other brands (as he did early on in this thread), but that wasn't enough and he needed to add about differences of microbrands and put himself in the design group when he is using catalog designs himself. He constantly is trying to tout his brand and put down other brands, be they established or upstart for doing the same thing he does, even though he wants us to believe different.

The issue is not about catalog watches, the issue is Todd.


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Couldn't be farther from the truth. Believe what you'd like though.

If you can't see this, you're delisional.

Almost all of the criticism you receive here is self induced/inflicted. As I've said in other threads, if you are more humble and stop interjecting yourself into discussions where you don't belong, you'll be received better. I think that if you continue your current path you'll either get banned or find that support here will dry up and then you'll have nowhere to pedal your stuff.
Please stop shooting yourself in the foot and just STFU.

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[Bradystraps]

I stated an opinion on Microbrands. That'a all. I could have been more clear by expressing that some seem to take an entire catalog watch and put their name on it while others seem to design and develop their watches with more unique qualities. There is a massive difference, IMO.

Only until I felt there were statements that weren't entirely true did I interject anything about my company. I believe I am allowed to answer those posts and defend my company. People can interpret whatever they choose. I bust my ass and have worked hard to build my company and will defend it when I feel necessary.

Bottom line, I wasn't looking to offend anyone with my opinion. Clearly I did. I apologize.

I really enjoy the forums here and don't want to be perceived as a bad guy. I will be more careful where I interject.

Peace.

[Ryeguy]

I stated an opinion on Microbrands. That'a all. I could have been more clear by expressing that some seem to take an entire catalog watch and put their name on it while others seem to design and develop their watches with more unique qualities. There is a massive difference, IMO.

Again, not here to bash anyone and, as I said, if someone puts the Lego blocks together in a way I find interesting, I might buy it.

I do believe, however, this is an over-simplification of the micro-brand market.

There absolutely are certainly are some "brands" who simply put their name on a catalogue watch dial with very minimal modifications (again, likely chosen from a menu of available options). These people are not "designers".

There are also people who select case styles from available options, dial styles (with some modification), hands (with some modification) and movements and have these assembled. I believe there are several Asian companies who support this business model and are essentially "one stop shops" for a micro-brand. You are getting a little closer to a "designer" in this instance, but I still think it is a stretch. Hence, my Lego analogy.

There are micro brands who completely design their own case from vendor "A" and their own dial from vendor "B" and buy movements from vendor "C" and then have a watch maker (local maybe) assemble the watches. These guys are more true "designers" in my mind. Even if the style is derivative (OWC for example), the guy still invests blood sweat and tears into the manufacture of their watch. These are the brands in which you'll hear the stories of dealing with difficult vendors, etc. OWC and Aegir both have shared some real crazy stories - enough so that I don't blame anyone for simply going the "option 2" route. It seems to be a much safer business decision.

To Andrew's point, Gerald Genta was a watch designer. He had a design first, then had it manufactured. Aegir sketched a design while sitting in a decompression chamber and found someone who would manufacture it. Dan Fock wanted a Mil Sub style case, but with a compressor style case back closure and with a more rounded profile. He tore his hair out getting someone to make the case to his design specifications.

I'm actually excited for this new world of micro brands. While today the designs are largely derivative, I could certainly see the next Gerald Genta out there with a sketchbook full of designs collaboratively working with a distributed set of manufacturers to bring their ideas to fruition.

[JP Chestnut]

If you're putting together off the shelf stuff with small tweaks, you're a stylist at best.

It's no different than the dude at Nordstroms who who gets you a windowpane jacket, some grey slacks, some shoes/socks, and a college stripe OCBD. He then walks you over to the in house tailor, tells them what to tweak, and sends you out with your new outfit.

Contrast that with what an actually clothing designer does. It's exactly the same difference in this case.

[Ryeguy]

If you're putting together off the shelf stuff with small tweaks, you're a stylist at best.

It's no different than the dude at Nordstroms who who gets you a windowpane jacket, some grey slacks, some shoes/socks, and a college stripe OCBD. He then walks you over to the in house tailor, tells them what to tweak, and sends you out with your new outfit.

Contrast that with what an actually clothing designer does. It's exactly the same difference in this case.

Great analogy. Nothing wrong with being a stylist either - some are extremely successful and it does take an eye to know what goes together, so respect where respect is due.

[JP Chestnut]

For sure. No judgement. This guy is more respected than many designers:
https://www.instagram.com/luca_rubinacci/?hl=en

It takes all kinds in the world.

[BSears]

I believe I am allowed to answer those posts and defend my company.

You are of course allowed to do whatever you feel, it's your company, your watches and your brand.

What I am trying to say is that in my opinion sometimes you shoot yourself in the foot.
It seems others view it the same way.

You're free to do whatever you like with our suggestions.

Todd,

It's one thing to defend yourself against unsolicited and unprovoked attacks. It's a whole other story, though, to "defend" yourself when you've opened the door wide open to criticism with posts that 1) have nothing to do with the OP and 2) take shots at nonspecific and unidentified other microbrands. I get where you are going and coming from - you have your brand and product and a bottom line to protect. But frankly you'd do yourself a world of favors if you simply let your product stand on its own merits as you are quite possibly, albeit indirectly, damaging your brand image with posts like this.

[Bradystraps]

I respect everyone's points of view. I realize I could have been more descript in my original opinion and because I wasn't, I opened myself up to stuff. That's on me. I have restated and clarified my opinion.

I absolutely agree with the general consensus here regarding the different types of Microbrands. They vary in range and level of difficulty to be successful.