New Bremont LE.....

Discussion of Bremont watches.
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jeckyll
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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by jeckyll » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:54 am

JP Chestnut wrote:
matt.wu wrote:And then of course you open everyone's favorite can of worms - what really constitutes in-house...
It's true. There's so much duplicity in the watch industry right now. Almost everyone seems to be trying to cut corners while pumping prices through the roof. Not to make it a "Rolex versus" thread, but at least with them it's fairly clear where you stand.
Same with Seiko ;)
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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by logan2z » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:56 am

Jeep99dad wrote:
matt.wu wrote:This is certainly pretty damning though. :think:

Looking forward to Bremont's response:

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Me too
It's gotta be addressed. Maybe it has and I missed it though :shrug:
I haven't seen any response from Bremont. Shocking.

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belligero
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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by belligero » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:07 am

:shrug:

Maybe the other gimmick/limited-edition-heavy companies without any horological credibility to speak of commission these things to make their stuff seem more reasonable by comparison? ;)
:thumbsup:

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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by logan2z » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:08 am

Just saw this posted on Alt1tude.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1406221686.734113.jpg
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jeckyll
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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by jeckyll » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:10 am

logan2z wrote:Just saw this posted on Alt1tude.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1406221686.734113.jpg
Seems like a pretty straightforward answer.

Not like these kinds of things don't happen. I remember Tag had something with Seiko's chrono they bought the rights to a while back.
If you believe the doctors, nothing is wholesome; if you believe the theologians, nothing is innocent; if you believe the military, nothing is safe.
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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by Rackness » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:36 am

Image

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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by Sidheguitarist » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:56 pm

matt.wu wrote:This is certainly pretty damning though. :think:

Looking forward to Bremont's response:

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Image

Poached:

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darkness season

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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by lilhoody » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:06 pm

This is reminiscent of a Panerai scandal.
"Men are ruled by toys"
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JP Chestnut
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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by JP Chestnut » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:14 pm

lilhoody wrote:This is reminiscent of a Panerai scandal.
I thought of that as well, but this is worse. I can't recall any other so blatantly bullshit line of nonsense. At least the PAM Brooklyn Bridge actually had the movement they said, just an uglier version.

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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by JBZ » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:18 am

So when they truly do an in-house movement, what will the price on the stainless steel version be? $100K?
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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by unixshrk » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:22 am

JBZ wrote:So when they truly do an in-house movement, what will the price on the stainless steel version be? $100K?
Probably

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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by Joeprez » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:24 am

JBZ wrote:So when they truly do an in-house movement, what will the price on the stainless steel version be? $100K?
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Omega / Rolex / Sinn / Oris / Seiko / Citizen / G Shock

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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by jimyritz » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:35 am

JP Chestnut wrote:
lilhoody wrote:This is reminiscent of a Panerai scandal.
I thought of that as well, but this is worse. I can't recall any other so blatantly bullshit line of nonsense. At least the PAM Brooklyn Bridge actually had the movement they said, just an uglier version.
----------

That Tag in-house debacle-- based on the Seiko.. That was pretty bad...

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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by JP Chestnut » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:46 am

jimyritz wrote:
JP Chestnut wrote:
lilhoody wrote:This is reminiscent of a Panerai scandal.
I thought of that as well, but this is worse. I can't recall any other so blatantly bullshit line of nonsense. At least the PAM Brooklyn Bridge actually had the movement they said, just an uglier version.
----------

That Tag in-house debacle-- based on the Seiko.. That was pretty bad...
That was the closest I could think of, but I don't expect much from TAG. I've never cared enough to unravel all the bullshit about that. Were they buying in Seiko movements and changing a rotor (as it seems Bremont is doing - their movement manufacturer is owned by Citizen BTW), or did they have some sort of exclusive right to produce the movement themselves? I seem to recall the latter but there are so many clueless people it's hard to know what's the truth.

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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by gwells » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:31 am

JBZ wrote:So when they truly do an in-house movement, what will the price on the stainless steel version be? $100K?
yes, but it will have a microscopic piece of pubic hair from amelia erhart coiled into the mainspring.

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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by jimyritz » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:13 am

JP Chestnut wrote:
jimyritz wrote:
JP Chestnut wrote:
lilhoody wrote:This is reminiscent of a Panerai scandal.
I thought of that as well, but this is worse. I can't recall any other so blatantly bullshit line of nonsense. At least the PAM Brooklyn Bridge actually had the movement they said, just an uglier version.
----------

That Tag in-house debacle-- based on the Seiko.. That was pretty bad...
That was the closest I could think of, but I don't expect much from TAG. I've never cared enough to unravel all the bullshit about that. Were they buying in Seiko movements and changing a rotor (as it seems Bremont is doing - their movement manufacturer is owned by Citizen BTW), or did they have some sort of exclusive right to produce the movement themselves? I seem to recall the latter but there are so many clueless people it's hard to know what's the truth.
---------
From Hodinkee:
TAG Heuer acquired the exclusive European rights to the TC87 movement platform from Seiko, who had patented the design back in 1997, and used it as the foundation for the 1887. TAG started with the Seiko 6S37 column wheel chronograph and adapted it to suit their needs, doing things like moving the balance wheel's position, flattening the movement out overall, and reconfiguring the main plate, bridge, and oscillator architecture.

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JP Chestnut
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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by JP Chestnut » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:23 am

jimyritz wrote:
JP Chestnut wrote:
jimyritz wrote:
JP Chestnut wrote:
lilhoody wrote:This is reminiscent of a Panerai scandal.
I thought of that as well, but this is worse. I can't recall any other so blatantly bullshit line of nonsense. At least the PAM Brooklyn Bridge actually had the movement they said, just an uglier version.
----------

That Tag in-house debacle-- based on the Seiko.. That was pretty bad...
That was the closest I could think of, but I don't expect much from TAG. I've never cared enough to unravel all the bullshit about that. Were they buying in Seiko movements and changing a rotor (as it seems Bremont is doing - their movement manufacturer is owned by Citizen BTW), or did they have some sort of exclusive right to produce the movement themselves? I seem to recall the latter but there are so many clueless people it's hard to know what's the truth.
---------
From Hodinkee:
TAG Heuer acquired the exclusive European rights to the TC87 movement platform from Seiko, who had patented the design back in 1997, and used it as the foundation for the 1887. TAG started with the Seiko 6S37 column wheel chronograph and adapted it to suit their needs, doing things like moving the balance wheel's position, flattening the movement out overall, and reconfiguring the main plate, bridge, and oscillator architecture.
Thanks for that. The TAG situation sounds like a good deal more customization than Bremont did, by all the accounts that I've read (a different rotor and a couple very very minor parts). I also don't find their explanation all that persuasive. Sure, had they originally listed this movement as "a first step towards in house production and we're very proud of the few changes we personally make" I don't think anyone would have complained. However, to call this movement in-house requires Herculean amounts of verbal gymnastics - even if you consider something like the Omega 8500 or the TAG 1887 to be legitimately "in house". This is more akin to the days when IWC actually bought ETA ebauches, wound their own springs, and performed other customization in their own facilities.

Bremont has been fairly deft at playing the PR game on the forums and general interest print magazines. This was a huge blunder.

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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by ericf4 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:24 am

so am I to understand that the Bremont movement is actually a Arnold and Son movement? Is that the net of this?

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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by JP Chestnut » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:30 am

ericf4 wrote:so am I to understand that the Bremont movement is actually a Arnold and Son movement? Is that the net of this?
Minus the rotor and a couple tiny bolt on parts, it seems like it. Bremont now seems to be claiming some involvement with the movement manufacture during the design of the movement but I find it hard to believe that they:
a) have the horological skill required to bring anything to the table
b) would allow "their" movement to be debuted in a different watch first

It seems like a bunch of smoke and mirrors at this point. All I know is Bremont made some strong claims regarding the "in house" nature of the movement and some guy popped up online and totally blew that up. Now their story appears to be have "evolved" to be a little closer to what seems to be the truth.

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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by ericf4 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:36 am

ouch.....not good...

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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by ericf4 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:37 am

plus, cant I buy a Arnold and Son watch for far less than the Bremont......Same engine etc.....minus the cloth from the wright deal?

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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by JP Chestnut » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:41 am

ericf4 wrote:ouch.....not good...
Come on? Who doesn't want to drop $27,000 on an Arnold and Son movement and a microscopic piece of cloth that covered the Wright Flyer after its historic flight. Yep, I'm hearing the plane was re-skinned after making history and this is where the fabric comes from. :salute:

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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by greenlightning » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:07 am


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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by dukerules » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:11 am

This whole thing is a disaster. Makes me sad, because Bremont is a great, innovative company. But this sure seems like a major misstep to me, and the PR backlash is going to really sting.

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Re: New Bremont LE.....

Post by ericf4 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:12 am

$45k.....that's funny......good luck.

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