1680 Red Sub

[goaliechris]

All - I think I’ve finally decided that I’ve wanted a birth year Red Sub as my grail watch. I’m just learning about the varieties and what to look for but could use some help. Any opinions on this one? Papers and boxes aren’t that important to me but dial and case condition are.

https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/e0 ... dial-A1352

This will probably be a decently long journey to find the right one but this one caught my eye and this is a good seller.

Merry Christmas!

Chris


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dukerules]

My opinion is think hard about spending $20K on a watch that I think is worth a third of that and will likely be $10K in 1-2 years.

[blkgsl]

When buying vintage, it’s even more important to buy the seller, imo. Jacek is one of the 3 vintage dealers I have / will deal with. Whatever he has listed will be legitimate and fair.

The example you identified is a good one!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JP Chestnut]

When buying vintage, it’s even more important to buy the seller, imo. Jacek is one of the 3 vintage dealers I have / will deal with. Whatever he has listed will be legitimate and fair.

The example you identified is a good one!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Experts get fooled. Nothing in this market is garunteed 100% legit. I wouldn’t buy anything hot off the open market right now. The best you can do is get something verifiably long held by a legit and well known collector.

[ericf4]

My opinion is think hard about spending $20K on a watch that I think is worth a third of that and will likely be $10K in 1-2 years.

This.....as cool as it would be and I'd love a birth year watch, the fantasy is likely cooler than dropping the 20k on it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[goaliechris]

All good points. Looking farther back a few years, I noticed some of these at $7-10k. I know the market is crazy so maybe better to wait but no guarantee they won’t continue to climb, albeit more slowly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blkgsl]

When buying vintage, it’s even more important to buy the seller, imo. Jacek is one of the 3 vintage dealers I have / will deal with. Whatever he has listed will be legitimate and fair.

The example you identified is a good one!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Experts get fooled. Nothing in this market is garunteed 100% legit. I wouldn’t buy anything hot off the open market right now. The best you can do is get something verifiably long held by a legit and well known collector.

Fair point. However, if a good dealer makes a mistake, you can be relatively more certain you will get your money and an apology back.

At some point, nothing in life is certain, but it’s good to have some level of security when dealing with a good dealer.

[JP Chestnut]

When buying vintage, it’s even more important to buy the seller, imo. Jacek is one of the 3 vintage dealers I have / will deal with. Whatever he has listed will be legitimate and fair.

The example you identified is a good one!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Experts get fooled. Nothing in this market is garunteed 100% legit. I wouldn’t buy anything hot off the open market right now. The best you can do is get something verifiably long held by a legit and well known collector.

Fair point. However, if a good dealer makes a mistake, you can be relatively more certain you will get your money and an apology back.

At some point, nothing in life is certain, but it’s good to have some level of security when dealing with a good dealer.

For sure, and even if it’s modified (which it probably is) “I got it from Jacek” calms a lot of nerves when you go to sell it. Even so, Jacek sells the all red small triangle Franken GMTs with a blue bezel insert, just like every other big time dealer.

[JBZ]

Have you checked out the red sub section on drsd.com? Some good info there regarding dial varieties, serial numbers, etc.

I do agree the market is absolutely crazy right now. Maybe there’ll be a correctiom or a slowdown, but my guess is that the days of getting one of these for high 4 to low 5 figures is over.

If you’re serious, do your research and make sure you pay a fair price. My guess is that a dealer like Jacek will be happy to work with you to try and find a good example if you want something other than the one you linked to.

[goaliechris]

Have you checked out the red sub section on drsd.com? Some good info there regarding dial varieties, serial numbers, etc.

I do agree the market is absolutely crazy right now. Maybe there’ll be a correctiom or a slowdown, but my guess is that the days of getting one of these for high 4 to low 5 figures is over.

If you’re serious, do your research and make sure you pay a fair price. My guess is that a dealer like Jacek will be happy to work with you to try and find a good example if you want something other than the one you linked to.

Yes, thank you. I have used that site to understand the different dials and what to look for. It’s a good resource.

I wish I’d moved in this idea a few years ago. At given prices I will have to sell some watches to make it doable, including a 16710 maybe. But it would be a “one watch” situation for me for sure. It ticks a lot of boxes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[toxicavenger]

prices like this aren't worth my birth year.

[BBK357]

20k for a red sub??? That is ducking insane. 2 years ago it was about 11k.

I’d wait or find something else.

[BacoNoir]

Vintage watches are like second homes. Prices are strong when the economy is good, which is also a bad time to buy.

[JBZ]

This thread from TRF may also be helpful.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=145962

[aikiman44]

Vintage watches are like second homes. Prices are strong when the economy is good, which is also a bad time to buy.

I agree, it’s an insane time to by expensive vintage. You’ll pay twice the amount and kick yourself later. Like buying stocks.

[Nellipj]

As beautiful as the redline 1680 is, the lack of quickset date was what made me flip mine. I absolutely loved the looks. If it was a 1 watch and you didn’t go weeks without wearing it then the date is no problem. If you have a collection and rotate watches then think hard about the date.

Current prices on these are insane. 20k is a definite no go for me. It’s great, but 20k great?? That’s a tough one to swallow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JBZ]

As beautiful as the redline 1680 is, the lack of quickset date was what made me flip mine. I absolutely loved the looks. If it was a 1 watch and you didn’t go weeks without wearing it then the date is no problem. If you have a collection and rotate watches then think hard about the date.

Current prices on these are insane. 20k is a definite no go for me. It’s great, but 20k great?? That’s a tough one to swallow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Although it's theoretical for me at this point, I've always thought it would be cool to have a 1655 Explorer II. The prices on them are similar. Even if I had the money, I'd have a hard time justifying paying that much for it no matter how cool it looks. There's one on sale on TRF right now with a damaged dial for "only" $14K. Better condition examples go for more than $20,000.

[goaliechris]

The top of the market is a bad time to get this latest obsession - you all raise good points. My guess is, looking at the prices over the past several years, there will most likely be a “correction” of some kind back to a more logical price point. With a clearer mindset than last night (wine), $20k is just not where I am going to go on a Sub not matter how badly I want one. Which I do. Need to be patient.

In the meantime, may put a few up for sale to build up the watch fund.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JBZ]

^^^The heart wants what it wants, but you could get a WG Sub or GMT for right around the same amount. Not that those are better watches necessarily, but it would give me pause. You could also get several varieties of the AP Royal Oak for the same price or less.

[goaliechris]

^^^The heart wants what it wants, but you could get a WG Sub or GMT for right around the same amount. Not that those are better watches necessarily, but it would give me pause. You could also get several varieties of the AP Royal Oak for the same price or less.

I have a lug hole 16710 that I bought last year with all 3 bezels and I have my 16600 which is going nowhere. If I decided to ever buy that Red Sub, the GMT most likely would be on the block but it would hurt. Not a lot of variety in having 3 of my 5 good watches being Rolex oyster models.

The 15400 has been on my list for a long time so who knows. If I had to sell everything and start over, I would have that and the ‘71 Sub and be completely thrilled and done.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[aikiman44]

I’ve been lusting over a Journe for roughly the same price as a Red Sub. This would necessitate selling multiple watches. Though it would be nice to be in ‘high horology’ I think I have more fun with my other watches. That’s probability a temptation for all of us.

[abuemily]

I had one-- a 1973 bought used in 1982 for $300 and sold in 2007 for $9,600. I loved it, but what actually convinced me to sell was fact that RSC refused to work on it anymore because the red dial could not be replaced if anything happened. I can't keep a safe queen, but worried too much if something happened to it. And now prices are insane.

[pbj204]

I had one-- a 1973 bought used in 1982 for $300 and sold in 2007 for $9,600. I loved it, but what actually convinced me to sell was fact that RSC refused to work on it anymore because the red dial could not be replaced if anything happened. I can't keep a safe queen, but worried too much if something happened to it. And now prices are insane.

Wow $300.

[goaliechris]

Didn’t know that about RSC not being willing to work on these anymore. I know there are plenty of good places that will but that’s disappointing. The vintage world is full of risk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[abuemily]

Didn’t know that about RSC not being willing to work on these anymore. I know there are plenty of good places that will but that’s disappointing. The vintage world is full of risk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When I called and asked about service, they said they could do it (at that time), but only if it were a white dial. They also told me that they will not work on ANY watches more than 50 years old. At the time my 1680 was just shy of that. But I have a Rolex I inherited from my father--purchased in 1957--and they told me they would not service that one.