Dress shoe question

[JP Chestnut]

How in hell do you know that?

Honestly I don't know, but I remember almost everything I see/read. Someone put together a retrospective of Charles going back many years and you could trace back the history of those shoes. He got them in the 1970s.

[marchone]

That level of detail at the press conference reminded me of the Beatles when they popped.

[belligero]

Shoes are as important as watches are for men. JMHO.

Here's the flow chart.

shoes > watches > shirts > belts > jeans

Sounds reasonable, although I'd propose a slight re-ranking:

shoes > jeans > watches > shirts > belts

The point here is that what's on your feet has a huge impact on how you look and feel.

[marchone]

Speaking of jeans I just got my every five years replacement set of a half dozen pairs. I'm shocked at how 501s have changed.

[JBZ]

Speaking of jeans I just got my every five years replacement set of a half dozen pairs. I'm shocked at how 501s have changed.

Changed how? Quality? Cut? I haven't bought any 501's in a long time.

[marchone]

The last several sets I bought were simple to order and they always looked the same. This time I called to verify the color (it looked odd on the website) and the Levi's rep told me this was the darkest blue. It turned out to be more of a royal blue (Cobalt?) than blue jean blue if that makes sense. Stitching changed to single from parallel exposed and color contrasted. Buttons changed from brass to blacked metal. Fabric weight is lighter even though I selected the heaviest I found. Cut is good. I'll live with them but they're not the same. It's probably my error but the selection now is staggering. And confusing.

They're not bad. Just very different. And unexpected. On the bright side they were on sale for some $32 a pair.

[belligero]

If you're buying half a dozen pairs of jeans at once, you're doing it wrong.

Instead of getting a pile of cheaply-sweatshop-made denim that's weak, looks cheap and dumpy, and falls apart, you can get a pair of quality jeans. My oldest pair of jeans is 19 oz Japanese, and it's still going strong after frequent wear (often near-daily at times) since 2008. There are some high-quality American mills out there too if you're feeling patriotic; Cone Mills is the best-known and they supply some proper makers. If you want to stick with Levi's, their Japan- and USA-made LVC options are the real deal. The sweatshop-made stuff isn't worthy of the name.

You only need two or three pairs of top-quality jeans, and you don't need to wash them every time you wear them. I'm not one of the folks that advocates never washing, but I do suggest hand-washing as infrequently as possible. It's not that big of a deal; you dunk them in a tub with a bit of Woolite and you're done. They last way longer and look infinitely better if you don't put them in the dryer, too.

I got some USA-made Tellason jeans in London last year and I'm extremely pleased with them. If you like the 501 cut, they offer a quality no-BS alternative. Rogue Territory and other American companies also make old-school-crafted denim that wears like iron and looks siginificantly better than the crap at Wal-Mart. Levi's shifts their production all over the place these days so I'm not a big fan, even of the primo line.

The good shit tends to be cheaper in the long run, too.

Oh, and I still don't get why anyone would go high-budget on a wristwatch and then cheap out on shoes/boots. Kicks are always first priority.

[marchone]

I'll check them out. Thanks.

[belligero]

[marchone]

Honestly the cut is fine and I can live with the detail changes like the stitching. It's the weird color that bugs me. The color reminds me of Dickey's work pants.

I'm just dismayed to find how many "Original 501" jeans they're selling that look nothing like the originals or each other for that matter.



How are you making out with the cutbacks up there?

[belligero]

^

Indeed, it's a classic cut that tends to look good on non-obese people. The problem is that the quality of the materials and workmanship has taken a nosedive; it's not just the colour. Compare today's Chinese-made mass-market junk with high-grade no-BS denim made with durability instead of cost-reduction as a goal, and you'll see what I mean. It's like the difference between a Pizza Pocket straight outta the microwave and a Margherita straight outta Naples. I go by the "buy less, buy better, and really use it" principle when it comes to clothing, and I'm much more satisfied that way.

One of the biggest advantages of being a dude is that you can just stick with the classics and you'll be more than fine. As much as the clothing industry tries to turn men into chicks by pushing dumb trends, all you need is non-crappy shoes, a few pairs of quality jeans that fit, a limited number of decent basics — plus maybe a few things from an old-school tailor for special occasions — and you're essentially sorted for life as long as you get off your ass once in a while. Replace as necessary, which isn't often with the good stuff. I've been flogging a pair of cordovan Vass brogues for the past six years in all sorts of abusive conditions (snow in Ukraine, boozing in Oslo, underground clubs in Berlin and Budapest, walking the dog in the forest behind the office) and they still look like new after a wipedown and a few minutes with the brush. Same deal with high-quality denim; nothing seems to mess 'em up. I can't count how many times that the cheap jeans I wore as a student would have ripped or blown out under the conditions that Samurai or Tellason jeans simply shrug off.

No stress about the cutbacks here for me. Norway's sitting on a big ol' mountain of cash and is far less cyclical than most places in the industry — though there have been some reductions, especially at service companies. The Canadian oil sands and some big offshore projects are really feeling the hurt, though. After having spent time in the steaming tar sands of Alberta, I don't have much sympathy for the situation there. It's a dirty industry in every sense of the word.

Anyway, hit me up if you want some recommendations for your area. If you're in NYC, go talk to Gordon at Blue in Green; he really knows his shit and will find you what you want.

[marchone]

^

Indeed, it's a classic cut that tends to look good on non-obese people. The problem is that the quality of the materials and workmanship has taken a nosedive; it's not just the colour. Compare today's Chinese-made mass-market junk with high-grade no-BS denim made with durability instead of cost-reduction as a goal, and you'll see what I mean. It's like the difference between a Pizza Pocket straight outta the microwave and a Margherita straight outta Naples. I go by the "buy less, buy better, and really use it" principle when it comes to clothing, and I'm much more satisfied that way.

One of the biggest advantages of being a dude is that you can just stick with the classics and you'll be more than fine. As much as the clothing industry tries to turn men into chicks by pushing dumb trends, all you need is non-crappy shoes, a few pairs of quality jeans that fit, a limited number of decent basics — plus maybe a few things from an old-school tailor for special occasions — and you're essentially sorted for life as long as you get off your ass once in a while. Replace as necessary, which isn't often with the good stuff. I've been flogging a pair of cordovan Vass brogues for the past six years in all sorts of abusive conditions (snow in Ukraine, boozing in Oslo, underground clubs in Berlin and Budapest, walking the dog in the forest behind the office) and they still look like new after a wipedown and a few minutes with the brush. Same deal with high-quality denim; nothing seems to mess 'em up. I can't count how many times that the cheap jeans I wore as a student would have ripped or blown out under the conditions that Samurai or Tellason jeans simply shrug off.

No stress about the cutbacks here for me. Norway's sitting on a big ol' mountain of cash and is far less cyclical than most places in the industry — though there have been some reductions, especially at service companies. The Canadian oil sands and some big offshore projects are really feeling the hurt, though. After having spent time in the steaming tar sands of Alberta, I don't have much sympathy for the situation there. It's a dirty industry in every sense of the word.

Anyway, hit me up if you want some recommendations for your area. If you're in NYC, go talk to Gordon at Blue in Green; he really knows his shit and will find you what you want.

We're of a similar mind. I've been that way since high school and I'm 63 now. I quickly adopted jeans, jackets and shoes and boots. It's easy to maintain. I just retired a '90s YSL Tom Ford cashmere blazer. Fantastic cut. Been looking around and want to check out a Dunhill Camdeboo. Looks great in a restaurant in Manhattan or a salmon camp in New Brunswick.

And there are shells and coats. But that's it. Pretty simple.

[JP Chestnut]

I don't really wear jeans, but when I have looked at them I haven't been happy with the quality of the regular name-brand stuff. The Cone Mill denim, as Ryan said, is nice though.

[dukerules]

Current mass-production 501s are nothing like the classic versions. I'd pay 6-7x the price for a proper pair of LVCs (preferably 1947s) that will last much longer and look better doing it.

[belligero]

While we're on the subject, it's worth noting that dressing fancier is definitely not the same as dressing better.

I work mostly with other engineers, and engineering has to be one of the worst-dressed professions out there. We're supposed to understand materials and design, but the majority wear ill-fitting crap, and it's usually overpriced on top of it. The everyday stuff is bad enough, but most literally look like clowns when they attempt to get dressed up; shitty suits with ugly shirts and cheap/nasty shoes are pretty much the standard.

You can be very well-dressed in jeans, a T-shirt and sneakers if you know what you're doing. It's all about quality and fit. With very few exceptions, labels are meaningless — and regardless of the manufacturer, the logo should never be visible. Subtlety and understatement count. I really like the expression: "It should take about five minutes to realize that a man is well-dressed."

Anyway, not cheaping out on shoes (shoes being something that quality women definitely notice) is a good start toward dressing like a grown-up.

[marchone]

Fit is king.

[JP Chestnut]

When I'm at the B School it's slacks, OCBDs, and an odd jacket. When I'm teaching, it's suits. When I'm at home, it's stuff my daughter won't ruin by touching me with jam on her hands.

[homathetes]

This. Took my wife about five years to convince me, but no matter what you spend, fit matters most. Of course, good fitting pants from Target will last 1/10 as long as good pants.

Fit is king.

[aikiman44]

Fit: buy shoes after 4pm when your feet are a bit swollen, wear the same socks you'll regularly be using, and wear them around the house for an evening to check the fit.
Stand on one foot when trying on, preferably your larger foot. You need about a thumb's width/one inch of space in front of your longest toe (for shoes and sneakers). If they're a bit large on your smaller foot, that's okay.
Also, never listen to a salesman that tells you they'll break in or stretch. They have to fit when you buy them. Period.

[JP Chestnut]

Fit: buy shoes after 4pm when your feet are a bit swollen, wear the same socks you'll regularly be using, and wear them around the house for an evening to check the fit.
Stand on one foot when trying on, preferably your larger foot. You need about a thumb's width/one inch of space in front of your longest toe (for shoes and sneakers). If they're a bit large on your smaller foot, that's okay.
Also, never listen to a salesman that tells you they'll break in or stretch. They have to fit when you buy them. Period.

Dress shoe fit is so hard to determine. However, once you get a single pair that really works, it becomes easy to tell in a second what fits. Until then, for me at least, it was a game of spending money and hoping for results. It's always better not to buy the questionable pair though, since as you say, the fit doesn't really improve (and doesn't truly start to hurt until a couple hours of real wear).

[belligero]

My experience with handmade shoes is that if it's comfortable on the first try, it's not a good fit. The ones that seemed to be spot-on straight off ended up too loose. The best-fitting pairs took some time to break in, but it was well worth the effort.

But for sneakers and the like, I'll agree; if it's causing problems from the get-go, there's no hope.

[JP Chestnut]

My experience with handmade shoes is that if it's comfortable on the first try, it's not a good fit. The ones that seemed to be spot-on straight off ended up too loose. The best-fitting pairs took some time to break in, but it was well worth the effort.

But for sneakers and the like, I'll agree; if it's causing problems from the get-go, there's no hope.

For me, it's a socketed feeling of my heel into the heel cup. Almost no shoe provides that. Without the tight heel fit, it's blister city no matter what. There are a very few Alden and C&J lasts that work, but almost nothing else. When I start teaching more than occasionally, I'll pick up a small rotation of bespoke balmorals and never look back at RTW.

[JBZ]

My experience with handmade shoes is that if it's comfortable on the first try, it's not a good fit. The ones that seemed to be spot-on straight off ended up too loose. The best-fitting pairs took some time to break in, but it was well worth the effort.

But for sneakers and the like, I'll agree; if it's causing problems from the get-go, there's no hope.

For me, it's a socketed feeling of my heel into the heel cup. Almost no shoe provides that. Without the tight heel fit, it's blister city no matter what. There are a very few Alden and C&J lasts that work, but almost nothing else. When I start teaching more than occasionally, I'll pick up a small rotation of bespoke balmorals and never look back at RTW.

I think my best fitting shoe is my Vass Budapester, which provides the tight heel cup fit you describe. I bought the shoe off the rack, but I have a hard time believing a bespoke shoe would fit me much better.

[JP Chestnut]

My experience with handmade shoes is that if it's comfortable on the first try, it's not a good fit. The ones that seemed to be spot-on straight off ended up too loose. The best-fitting pairs took some time to break in, but it was well worth the effort.

But for sneakers and the like, I'll agree; if it's causing problems from the get-go, there's no hope.

For me, it's a socketed feeling of my heel into the heel cup. Almost no shoe provides that. Without the tight heel fit, it's blister city no matter what. There are a very few Alden and C&J lasts that work, but almost nothing else. When I start teaching more than occasionally, I'll pick up a small rotation of bespoke balmorals and never look back at RTW.

I think my best fitting shoe is my Vass Budapester, which provides the tight heel cup fit you describe. I bought the shoe off the rack, but I have a hard time believing a bespoke shoe would fit me much better.

Vass seems to have a few "narrow in the back, wide in the front" lasts. I'd like to try some out, but I'm so invested in Alden at this point, that the thought of getting my size down in another set of lasts isn't appealing. If I were going to do RTW, it would be the semi-bespoke (MTM) St Crispin's. Rather than building a last to your foot, they build up existing lasts with add on parts. It allows a very extensive range of modifications.

[belligero]

FWIW, some of Vass's standard lasts give me nearly as good of a fit as the bespoke ones, and the quality is as good as it gets.