Mhvj movement saga part 2
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- t20569cald
- Founder and Owner of Ægir Instruments
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Mhvj movement saga part 2
So I left off from the last post, that Mhvj had agreed to deliver 2 movements in late January 2011, the rest in February some time. This would work in nicely to use one in the Thomas Prescher built prototype, which was currently being made, and number 1 watch not long after.
The movements did not arrive in January, but that was not really a surprise, as a small delay is too be expected.
Without going through the many emails to get the exact dates for these posts, the movements arrived sometime approx mid February, which was great, as we had one for the prototype in time for Basel 2011. I was sent a bill for the 2 movements, which I immediately paid, and not long after they arrived at Thomas Preschers workshop. Keep in mind, I ordered this, though at the time I had not seen the black finish, and had ordered grey.
But this did not arrive, nor did any grey ones, these did.
I was somewhat confused, as these have neither the Strutec escapement, and decorated rotor and bridges, nor grey, or much else.
They did charge me, so not movements to fit cases and other components, and also they did say they would deliver two in the beginning, so these were it.
But this is where the problems really started. We decided to use one of these in the prototype watch anyway, and fit check the other with our dials and hands etc.
Before Thomas Prescher did that, he checked them over, and there were scratches, damaged rotor screws on both, too much oil, so on.
I explained this to the CFO of Mhvj, as he was the person I was dealing with.
I mentioned the finish as well, and the decorations, but his reply was almost like I was annoying. We could not case one of course, and arranged to give them back at Basel.
During this time, I stated to the CFO, that a watchmaker who actually passed an exam never put these together, as I could do better myself.
His reply was the beginning of things to come. “ your opinion of my skills, is your opinion'' . I was shocked, the CFO had done these! But Mhvj supply Soprod escapements, so surely they have watchmakers?
Thomas Prescher accompanied me to their booth at Basel, we returned the movements and agreed on dates, finishes, etc. OK, so a mistake can be made, a delay has happened, but we can move on and get things ironed out. I ask for the Black finish that I see outside in the window of their booth, as this looks perfect. They agree. A little while later they tell me I can not have Black, as it is too hard to do, and it fills in the holes and is just too hard. OK, I wonder why then they show it, but no problem, we can have grey. I am then offered bead blast on the main plate and brigdes, with gold plate on the Strutec decorations. OK, lets do that, and get it done.
A big delay follows now,7 to 8 months from memory, and movements are ready!
This time, they are finished in a bead blast like promised.
BUT....
They send me the bill, along with drawings, and acceptance papers to sign. As I had signed them already, I decided to look very closely at those drawings, as it seemed odd. Took me less than a minute to realise that they had changed the specs! They know from our emails, that I have dials and cases made, hands and everything else. 0.25 mm if I recall, thicker!
They did not inform me, but rather tried to get me to sign off. That to me is blatant fraud.
We agree that they will take a case, dial and hands, to check.
I send them a case, number 25/25 for them to work it out.
After a few days, they send me a few pictures and a video.
They say it is all good, but I notice, as you already have, there are marks in the case back holes. I cant believe it, they have damaged the case back fitting only one movement!
I say little about it. It is not the case back that bothers me, that is easily replaced, it is the attitude and just basic incompetence.
Whatever, lets move on.
Movements arrive! Thomas checks them out, and instantly rejects them. His name is attached to this watch after all, and if its not right, it is not right.
I would expect him to be harsh, but he does not even need to be, they are shocking.
There are scratches everywhere, damaged screws again on the rotors! Too much oil. Not even the most basic thing they can get right. I am concerned, very concerned, as of course, is Thomas Prescher.
They go back, I ask WTF! I am now told, that I have chosen such a delicate finish, what do I expect? I did not chose this finish, I accepted it in place of what could not be given when I was offered it, to speed things along.
I am now looking foolish to my customers, seriously loosing money and am too committed to pull out.
Things are looking bad, the nice relationship is over with Mhvj, and Thomas Prescher must be thinking of pulling out. How do I know?, because I would be.
The movements did not arrive in January, but that was not really a surprise, as a small delay is too be expected.
Without going through the many emails to get the exact dates for these posts, the movements arrived sometime approx mid February, which was great, as we had one for the prototype in time for Basel 2011. I was sent a bill for the 2 movements, which I immediately paid, and not long after they arrived at Thomas Preschers workshop. Keep in mind, I ordered this, though at the time I had not seen the black finish, and had ordered grey.
But this did not arrive, nor did any grey ones, these did.
I was somewhat confused, as these have neither the Strutec escapement, and decorated rotor and bridges, nor grey, or much else.
They did charge me, so not movements to fit cases and other components, and also they did say they would deliver two in the beginning, so these were it.
But this is where the problems really started. We decided to use one of these in the prototype watch anyway, and fit check the other with our dials and hands etc.
Before Thomas Prescher did that, he checked them over, and there were scratches, damaged rotor screws on both, too much oil, so on.
I explained this to the CFO of Mhvj, as he was the person I was dealing with.
I mentioned the finish as well, and the decorations, but his reply was almost like I was annoying. We could not case one of course, and arranged to give them back at Basel.
During this time, I stated to the CFO, that a watchmaker who actually passed an exam never put these together, as I could do better myself.
His reply was the beginning of things to come. “ your opinion of my skills, is your opinion'' . I was shocked, the CFO had done these! But Mhvj supply Soprod escapements, so surely they have watchmakers?
Thomas Prescher accompanied me to their booth at Basel, we returned the movements and agreed on dates, finishes, etc. OK, so a mistake can be made, a delay has happened, but we can move on and get things ironed out. I ask for the Black finish that I see outside in the window of their booth, as this looks perfect. They agree. A little while later they tell me I can not have Black, as it is too hard to do, and it fills in the holes and is just too hard. OK, I wonder why then they show it, but no problem, we can have grey. I am then offered bead blast on the main plate and brigdes, with gold plate on the Strutec decorations. OK, lets do that, and get it done.
A big delay follows now,7 to 8 months from memory, and movements are ready!
This time, they are finished in a bead blast like promised.
BUT....
They send me the bill, along with drawings, and acceptance papers to sign. As I had signed them already, I decided to look very closely at those drawings, as it seemed odd. Took me less than a minute to realise that they had changed the specs! They know from our emails, that I have dials and cases made, hands and everything else. 0.25 mm if I recall, thicker!
They did not inform me, but rather tried to get me to sign off. That to me is blatant fraud.
We agree that they will take a case, dial and hands, to check.
I send them a case, number 25/25 for them to work it out.
After a few days, they send me a few pictures and a video.
They say it is all good, but I notice, as you already have, there are marks in the case back holes. I cant believe it, they have damaged the case back fitting only one movement!
I say little about it. It is not the case back that bothers me, that is easily replaced, it is the attitude and just basic incompetence.
Whatever, lets move on.
Movements arrive! Thomas checks them out, and instantly rejects them. His name is attached to this watch after all, and if its not right, it is not right.
I would expect him to be harsh, but he does not even need to be, they are shocking.
There are scratches everywhere, damaged screws again on the rotors! Too much oil. Not even the most basic thing they can get right. I am concerned, very concerned, as of course, is Thomas Prescher.
They go back, I ask WTF! I am now told, that I have chosen such a delicate finish, what do I expect? I did not chose this finish, I accepted it in place of what could not be given when I was offered it, to speed things along.
I am now looking foolish to my customers, seriously loosing money and am too committed to pull out.
Things are looking bad, the nice relationship is over with Mhvj, and Thomas Prescher must be thinking of pulling out. How do I know?, because I would be.
- t20569cald
- Founder and Owner of Ægir Instruments
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Re: Mhvj movement saga part 2
aztecknight wrote:damn.
Gets worse in the final part!
Re: Mhvj movement saga part 2
Talk about incompetence ...you shoud file suit against them to recover all your money, every last pennie..
What an awful experience Todd....
What an awful experience Todd....
- t20569cald
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Re: Mhvj movement saga part 2
It is on the cards, but I just finished 3 years of a law suit (I won) and not sure I am up to it againjimyritz wrote:Talk about incompetence ...you shoud file suit against them to recover all your money, every last pennie..
What an awful experience Todd....
- Graeme
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Re: Mhvj movement saga part 2
Holy Shite Todd, that's crazy. Mhvj should be ashamed of themselves.
I think there are a few Swiss companies that take for granted "Swiss Made" and are producing crap.
I think there are a few Swiss companies that take for granted "Swiss Made" and are producing crap.
- Brklynlarsons
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Re: Mhvj movement saga part 2
Sounds bad. Sorry you had to go through this.
- t20569cald
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Re: Mhvj movement saga part 2
And if anyone wants to share this elsewhere, please feel free. I am more than happy to back it up if quizzed. In fact, I am going to put out an article with the same content, written in a more direct, harsh way for publication very soon.
- craniotes
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Re: Mhvj movement saga part 2
You need to write a book. Really.
It would be a great read, and a cautionary tale for those who think that starting a watch company is easy. The fact that you're still standing after this debacle and you haven't soured on your vision is a testament to the adage that only the strong will survive. I
I can't wait to see the CD-1.
Regards,
Adam
It would be a great read, and a cautionary tale for those who think that starting a watch company is easy. The fact that you're still standing after this debacle and you haven't soured on your vision is a testament to the adage that only the strong will survive. I
I can't wait to see the CD-1.
Regards,
Adam
CAPT. THREAD POOPER
Re: Mhvj movement saga part 2
Just watch out for libel issues. I have no doubt that you're 100% right here, but that won't stop the company from coming after you and burying you in litigation, which wouldn't be fun.t20569cald wrote:And if anyone wants to share this elsewhere, please feel free. I am more than happy to back it up if quizzed. In fact, I am going to put out an article with the same content, written in a more direct, harsh way for publication very soon.
Re: Mhvj movement saga part 2
What assholes. Sours me on Soprod now too. We should all boycott this company full of douchebaggery.
You are clearly more patient that I would be Todd. I agree, file the suit. I think they'll settle as they wouldn't want the bad press.
You are clearly more patient that I would be Todd. I agree, file the suit. I think they'll settle as they wouldn't want the bad press.
- t20569cald
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Re: Mhvj movement saga part 2
They are going to get it though regardless.hoppyjr wrote:What assholes. Sours me on Soprod now too. We should all boycott this company full of douchebaggery.
You are clearly more patient that I would be Todd. I agree, file the suit. I think they'll settle as they wouldn't want the bad press.
I am not bothered if they sue me, in fact I would be happy, as it would make up my mind to take them on in court.
Re: Mhvj movement saga part 2
Wow...........sorry for your troubles !!!!
" The sunshine bores the daylights outta me......"
- dosei
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Re: Mhvj movement saga part 2
Good luck Todd.
- toxicavenger
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Re: Mhvj movement saga part 2
Damn Todd, bro I don't think even one of my bigger butt plugs could hurt you as much as they have.
So what is the next action with the movements? And who are you going to try to use next?
So what is the next action with the movements? And who are you going to try to use next?
Website: http://smallwhitestubbies.com/
Re: Mhvj movement saga part 2
+1 on literally every single point.craniotes wrote:You need to write a book. Really.
It would be a great read, and a cautionary tale for those who think that starting a watch company is easy. The fact that you're still standing after this debacle and you haven't soured on your vision is a testament to the adage that only the strong will survive. I
I can't wait to see the CD-1.
Regards,
Adam
Todd, I'm sorry. But I'll reiterate - I can't wait to see the CD-1.
- jeckyll
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Re: Mhvj movement saga part 2
Wow. People who complain about Micros and what they charge should read this.
We all have the same enemy. The enemy is the tyranny of the dull mind. - - Tom Robbins
- t20569cald
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Re: Mhvj movement saga part 2
I will touch on that in the last part.toxicavenger wrote:Damn Todd, bro I don't think even one of my bigger butt plugs could hurt you as much as they have.
So what is the next action with the movements? And who are you going to try to use next?
The LE watch is over though, for the foreseeable future.
- t20569cald
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Re: Mhvj movement saga part 2
Another thing that I will touch on in part 3 is the CD-1, then I plan to sound out how I can get it done.blkgsl wrote:+1 on literally every single point.craniotes wrote:You need to write a book. Really.
It would be a great read, and a cautionary tale for those who think that starting a watch company is easy. The fact that you're still standing after this debacle and you haven't soured on your vision is a testament to the adage that only the strong will survive. I
I can't wait to see the CD-1.
Regards,
Adam
Todd, I'm sorry. But I'll reiterate - I can't wait to see the CD-1.
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