Interesting thing

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CesarG
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Re: Interesting thing

Post by CesarG » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:13 pm

..... Just remember.... Dick WUS

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Re: Interesting thing

Post by Dedalus » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:06 pm

:shrug:


Honestly. I still hop onto WUS fairly regularly Todd, but never really look at the banners (or stickies for that matter).
Sorry for not noticing. :shifty:

Now if you'd announced a countdown timer tracking to the launch of the CD-2 or some such thing, then the WUS masses would have been all over it. :raised: (Tempest watches just did this and when it didn't launch on time all the followers got their knickers in knots... :rolleyes: ... and when the site finally went live some of the same members immediately started ripping the pre-order price.) :nutkick:

So to what others have already said... maybe WUS just isn't your demographic.

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Re: Interesting thing

Post by KREMKE » Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:51 am

Todd,

The guys here are right. WUS is not a host to your target market at the moment. IMO, the influx of China-made dive watch brands hitting WUS over the last couple of years, has conditioned the members there to expect 2000 to 3000m dive watches for under $1K :rolleyes:.
Blogs and magazines would be the way to go. ;)

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Re: Interesting thing

Post by t20569cald » Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:40 am

Think that is very true, more and more of it and thank you all for the contributions.
I was curious of the affect of pulling that advertising, and what works from where. I am enjoying the marketing side of it, I really find it interesting, bewildering, and a challenge.
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Re: Interesting thing

Post by Pasquale » Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:30 am

KREMKE wrote:Todd,

The guys here are right. WUS is not a host to your target market at the moment. IMO, the influx of China-made dive watch brands hitting WUS over the last couple of years, has conditioned the members there to expect 2000 to 3000m dive watches for under $1K :rolleyes:.
Blogs and magazines would be the way to go. ;)

I agree.. I rarely visit WUS for that reason (and also cuz the members and "Mods" suck..)

Todd-You'll do fine once the CD's hit the scene :thumbsup: Heck with all this talk and wait I WANT ONE :fro:
Pasquale

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Re: Interesting thing

Post by tmw » Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:50 am

The amazing thing about marketing is that it is an art rather than science.

Even the best of marketing plans, backed up with research, analysis, focus groups, etc. Is that it is trial by fire (maybe even trial and error) and you learn over time what works for you. Even all the high priced mbas I hire don't get it right the first, second or more times.

There is no canned watch strategy for coming into the market.

The measure of success is selling the watches, and building a supporting client base with strong customer service - a full lifecycle approach.

On that measure, so far you are doing well.
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Floating down canal
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Re: Interesting thing

Post by ezcheese » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:10 pm

Long term retail will definitely be the way to go. But that presents a whole new set of challenges. :doh:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: Interesting thing

Post by Techart » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:08 pm

Everyone is spot on, WUSser wont buy yr watch, even if they had the coin they rather pay for a used rollie/omega. You have a great watch no doubt but marketing have to be strong. If it was me, i go gungho like LW. After your initial batch sales, i believe u would made a decent sum of profit, use all that money and splash yr brand name all over the net like LW. It will get yr watch noticed and people talking. By that time, yr watches r already out and the owners can pitch in to help boost the brand based on their reviews. Imho its either go big or not at all. Timezone is a good place to start. PuristPro is too up there atm. Good luck!!! :thumbsup:

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Re: Interesting thing

Post by craniotes » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:28 pm

How about advertising on 3T?

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Re: Interesting thing

Post by t20569cald » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:42 pm

craniotes wrote:How about advertising on 3T?

Regards,
Adam

Dont get me started Adam
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Re: Interesting thing

Post by t20569cald » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:49 pm

Techart wrote: After your initial batch sales, i believe u would made a decent sum of profit,

Gav

I must be doing something wrong, because I am taking a huge loss.
Seriously, the tooling costs, and every single thing that my beer mat budget did not see, has mounted up to a rather large sum of money.
Putting my head in the game recently, looking towards long term, I agree with you money spent on marketing is the way forward, just do not want to throw it away.
There was a chance to break even during the second production, but because the CD-1 uses different tooling for the dials, hands, crystals etc, etc, that is not looking likely.
Anyway, I do not mind and lets face it, what venture makes profit in its first years anyway.
I have learn't a lot on this journey, and was all very valuable for my future direction of Aegir.
This thread as well, is all part of that.
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Re: Interesting thing

Post by matt.wu » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:14 pm

t20569cald wrote:
Techart wrote: After your initial batch sales, i believe u would made a decent sum of profit,

Gav


There was a chance to break even during the second production, but because the CD-1 uses different tooling for the dials, hands, crystals etc, etc, that is not looking likely.
That's an interesting note, Todd. Why's this the case? I was under the impression that they're essentially the same watch - just with a fixed instead of rotating bezel.

Is it too late to change this design decision? Seems like it'd be a huge deal for the you and the company to have to recoup "setup" costs twice.
:htfu:

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Re: Interesting thing

Post by t20569cald » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:29 pm

Was a decision I came to, after wanting the watch to wear a little bigger.
The way forward and to maintain the size was to decrease the bezel from 6mm down to 5 or 4.5mm while increasing the dial size up.
You are right, it was planned to be mostly the same watch, but now I see it differently.
There is an upside to this however, while increasing the dial size, the usual tools will need making like the minute makers, and new CD-1 of course, but Ægir will be ok as will the box that houses the 701M and the model.
The highest cost would be to make new tooling for the Appliques if that is needed. Only way is to make a prototype of course to find out. New crystals do not matter, as that is factored in to the case price from Fricker.
New hands will be needed too!
Other than that, nothing should change.

So, it is a complete new watch!, and I was mentioning an upside, that if I get the dimensions right, I can at least use the printing tools, appliques, crystals, hands and dial plates on the CD-2 44mm watch, that I have decided to make anyway, when finances allow.
There will not be a 44mm CD-1, as it will wear large due to the changes and look right, so this should work out nicely and speed up the release of the 44mm CD-2.





matt.wu wrote:
t20569cald wrote:
Techart wrote: After your initial batch sales, i believe u would made a decent sum of profit,

Gav


There was a chance to break even during the second production, but because the CD-1 uses different tooling for the dials, hands, crystals etc, etc, that is not looking likely.
That's an interesting note, Todd. Why's this the case? I was under the impression that they're essentially the same watch - just with a fixed instead of rotating bezel.

Is it too late to change this design decision? Seems like it'd be a huge deal for the you and the company to have to recoup "setup" costs twice.
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Re: Interesting thing

Post by fastward » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:23 pm

crystallan wrote:spam
Fuck you and fuck your "Coach" bags.

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Re: Interesting thing

Post by BSears » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:41 pm

t20569cald wrote:
sharkfin wrote:
t20569cald wrote:
sharkfin wrote:IMO its a numbers thing.
As bad as WUS is, they've got the high traffic.
So there will be some spillage of members clicking on the sponsors.
Also, there are so many ads that I'd constantly, mistakenly, click on them ads. So, you're numbers might be askew to the actual real target audience. IMO.

But Jae is right about hi percentage of members there are not in your demographic.

Getting some prototypes out to them high traffic bloggers may generate some buzz and traffic to your brand.

Yes you may be both right,,,,,,,,, but about getting the prototypes out, you do realize what kind of price Thomas Prescher charges right?
That watch is not leaving my sight!
yes, may I suggest a trip to NYC to do a press junket?
invite the the usual suspects in the industry over to Red Bar and have an open forum with DWC'ers giving the low down.
Ablogtoread's Ben guy live in NYC i believe.
this event could go viral on youtube as DWC/Red bar host. just saying. :stir:
When I can, I plan to attend one, but just to be the beer drinking champion
I don't know how i missed that statement but I accept your challenge on behalf of the States. :salute: :lol:
You give respect, you'll get respect - you just don't know your place.

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Re: Interesting thing

Post by fastward » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:43 pm

BSears wrote:
t20569cald wrote:
sharkfin wrote:
t20569cald wrote:
sharkfin wrote:IMO its a numbers thing.
As bad as WUS is, they've got the high traffic.
So there will be some spillage of members clicking on the sponsors.
Also, there are so many ads that I'd constantly, mistakenly, click on them ads. So, you're numbers might be askew to the actual real target audience. IMO.

But Jae is right about hi percentage of members there are not in your demographic.

Getting some prototypes out to them high traffic bloggers may generate some buzz and traffic to your brand.

Yes you may be both right,,,,,,,,, but about getting the prototypes out, you do realize what kind of price Thomas Prescher charges right?
That watch is not leaving my sight!
yes, may I suggest a trip to NYC to do a press junket?
invite the the usual suspects in the industry over to Red Bar and have an open forum with DWC'ers giving the low down.
Ablogtoread's Ben guy live in NYC i believe.
this event could go viral on youtube as DWC/Red bar host. just saying. :stir:
When I can, I plan to attend one, but just to be the beer drinking champion
I don't know how i missed that statement but I accept your challenge on behalf of the States. :salute: :lol:
Sorry, no beer, just fruity shots. :gayumbrella:

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Re: Interesting thing

Post by BSears » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:48 pm

fastward wrote:
BSears wrote:
t20569cald wrote:
sharkfin wrote:
t20569cald wrote:
sharkfin wrote:IMO its a numbers thing.
As bad as WUS is, they've got the high traffic.
So there will be some spillage of members clicking on the sponsors.
Also, there are so many ads that I'd constantly, mistakenly, click on them ads. So, you're numbers might be askew to the actual real target audience. IMO.

But Jae is right about hi percentage of members there are not in your demographic.

Getting some prototypes out to them high traffic bloggers may generate some buzz and traffic to your brand.

Yes you may be both right,,,,,,,,, but about getting the prototypes out, you do realize what kind of price Thomas Prescher charges right?
That watch is not leaving my sight!
yes, may I suggest a trip to NYC to do a press junket?
invite the the usual suspects in the industry over to Red Bar and have an open forum with DWC'ers giving the low down.
Ablogtoread's Ben guy live in NYC i believe.
this event could go viral on youtube as DWC/Red bar host. just saying. :stir:
When I can, I plan to attend one, but just to be the beer drinking champion
I don't know how i missed that statement but I accept your challenge on behalf of the States. :salute: :lol:
Sorry, no beer, just fruity shots. :gayumbrella:
I've got a joke for the skittles, but it has to be done in person. I gotta make it to NYC at some point. :headbang:
You give respect, you'll get respect - you just don't know your place.

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Re: Interesting thing

Post by zivadavis » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:13 am

i am late to this discussion.....

just my .02 worth and its just my opinion......

.....i learned about your watches from THIS site and not wus if thats any consolation.....i have clicked on the banner ads once on wus during the few brief times i have been there....the banner ads there reminded me of the hawkers manning the doors to the strip clubs on bourbon street in new orleans all screaming for your attention, all promising great things for a one drink minimum, and all basically sounding and looking the same.....i lived in new orleans for 5 years, rarely walked down bourbon street after cruising it right after moving there, and never went into any the strip clubs after i took one of my buddies who came to visit for mardi gras and just had to see the show in one of the clubs just as i rarely go to wus and never click on the banners after the first time.....both situations offered lots of promises but very little substance or reality once inside

personally i would not worry about what or how wus influences your site traffic.....in the long run it won't make a difference and probably has more negatives via the wrong demographic than positives....not that the guys on wus are bad people or evil they just aren't in the demographic you are after for sales....there are other sites or avenues to get to the demographic you are seeking as already suggested

that all said, once i learned about the upcoming aegir line on dwc i searched the net for more information and became more and more interested.....once the cd-1 is available i will DEFINITELY be ordering one....not maybe or possibly but definitely.....i already have the funds earmarked and set aside for the purchase

is there any way to secure a spot for a cd-1 or a button to hit to pre-order one?........i would love to own the LE version of the cd-2 but its not in the budget these days.....so its the cd-1 for me and i certainly do not want to be late to that release...


zivadavis

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Re: Interesting thing

Post by t20569cald » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:15 pm

zivadavis wrote: is there any way to secure a spot for a cd-1 or a button to hit to pre-order one?........i would love to own the LE version of the cd-2 but its not in the budget these days.....so its the cd-1 for me and i certainly do not want to be late to that release...


zivadavis
I do not do pre-orders as such, as I wont hold money, but drop me an email
info@aegirinstruments.com with full name and email address, and I can add you to the list, and updates if you like.

No issues later if you change your mind, just let me know
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carlodwc

Re: Interesting thing

Post by carlodwc » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:54 pm

Hey Todd, I read most of the posts here but not all of them. I guess if you posted the original thread you wanted some suggections and thoughts.

First of all I don't totally follow the whole story, it seems to me that you do have some watches on your site and that you do have them on sale. I guess you are trying to make some new ones and the process is expensive. Maybe I am wrong and if so you can correct or explain, but essentially here are my thoughts on this.

1. I think you did a great job on these watches, they are really nice on photos and looks very good quality made. I have not seen one in person so I cannot comment but I praise your work and I think you should be proud of what you have accomplished.

2. Any marketing is better then no marketing but you need to be aware that most current firms charge an arm and a leg and some have no clue as to how to market something. But the more your watch is known the more it will have a possibility to be looked at and possibly loved.

3. As far as the whole debate of WUS or whatever, the fact is that noone knows who looks in there and therefore to say it is or it is not your public might be true or not. If your watches cost over $2000, I have to say that your sphere or possible buying people is surely limited to those who can afford that much for a watch. But that does not mean that there are only a handful of them.

As for your ad, It is easier to notice a new ad posted then an ad removed. If it's not there, how do you know it's gone? Unless one specifically was looking for it and was actually trying to connect to you, chances are few people would notice any ad being removed. So don't worry about that, however the fact that it is now missing it's for sure less advertising for you.

The tuth is that WUS has lots of people visiting and selling lots of watches, lots of Rolexes, Panerai, etc. so I think it would be safe to say that the more people see your watches the more probablity you will have to sell some. There are other forums of course and you could make yourself known to those too, like TimeZone, TimeZone UK, Watch Talk Forum, etc. Even the Poor Man Watch Forum has a section for sale of higher priced watches and they sell them in there...

4. there are other ways to sell watches, look at MKII. They are not marketing anything else other then selling their watches, they are expensive but they are reportedly good. The guy there is always backlogged and it takes months if not years to get a watch...In short there is an actual word of mouth, in that someone gets the watch, is happy with it and then promotes it to his friends, etc. Other read the review, see the photos, know it's good and want to get one. I have no idea how many he sells but I know that one has to wait for months to get them and when they come up used, they are gone in a heartbeat. Also they keep their price pretty well. This is not really a marketing campaign but more the fact that people think these are good products and want them.

5. Of course if you want to just sell these you can also put them on Ebay, but obviously they still would need to inbue some confidence in people since they will have to spend quite a packet of dollars.

So what can you do? Well, of course this is the one million dollar question. I don't know all you can do since you will have to figure it out yourself. However here are a couple of possible helpers. You need to get your watches circulating and photos and data around the community, if I was you I would do something like this:

a. Take one of your watches and give it to someone to try out for a bit. Let's say you agree that he can keep it and wear if for a couple of weeks or something. in Exchange he can write a detailed review, honest and proper of his opinions, and post it in all possible watch forums. Ensure the guy can take good photos or maybe you can provide them yourself. But make him put these reviews in all forums. Don't limit yourself, just get these all over. Also don't try to "buy" the guy, the review needs to be honest and proper, saying what he thinks and consider plus and minuses.

b, Once this is done and review runs in different places, you can get the watch back and send it someone else who can do the same. Note that I am not saying that the guys are selling this for you, they are simply making your product known to other members, showing the photos, giving their impressions, positive or negative that they might be, etc. This is important because it needs to be the truth, not some phony review or tainted data.

c. Do it again with another WIS, at the same time if you have more then one watch, you can start rotating a new model. The point is that the photos and data can get around and start to be looked at, known by others and then people can open their own discussions etc. This would all be advertising for you. The key here is that they do what they really want and write what they really want to write because it would be the truth. The only thing is that they should have lots of photos and they should be well made to show the full beauty of the watches.

You can do this in a different way of course, my point though is simply that you need to get the data and photos out there so people start looking at these watches, know them, be interested in them, want to know more about them, etc.

d. Of course you can put ads on papers etc. but these are espensive and to a degree lack reality. A good review of a watch is what give a great reality on it, no matter what. Plus when the paper is gone, so is the ad.

The forums are there permanently and continual exposure, review, photos, etc. can make the watches more and more real to the WIS world.

Selling some of these should then make people start doing this on their own watches and from there you can be sure that you will get them sold...

Rekindle your viewpoint too, you are not just trying to make money or make up your expenses. You are giving the possibility to another WIS to wear a gorgeus time piece and make him happy and have him ejoy wearing a watch because it is a great watch and not just something to tell him the time. If that's all he wanted, a Timex would suffice. No, a WIS wants something more then a device to tell him time, he wants something that has a certain quality, that looks and feel in a certain way and you CAN give him what he is looking for.

Sorry for the long write up, I hope it makes sense. But I wanted to give you my view on this. Hope it helps.

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Re: Interesting thing

Post by t20569cald » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:42 am

carlodwc wrote:Hey Todd, I read most of the posts here but not all of them. I guess if you posted the original thread you wanted some suggections and thoughts.

First of all I don't totally follow the whole story, it seems to me that you do have some watches on your site and that you do have them on sale. I guess you are trying to make some new ones and the process is expensive. Maybe I am wrong and if so you can correct or explain, but essentially here are my thoughts on this.

1. I think you did a great job on these watches, they are really nice on photos and looks very good quality made. I have not seen one in person so I cannot comment but I praise your work and I think you should be proud of what you have accomplished.

2. Any marketing is better then no marketing but you need to be aware that most current firms charge an arm and a leg and some have no clue as to how to market something. But the more your watch is known the more it will have a possibility to be looked at and possibly loved.

3. As far as the whole debate of WUS or whatever, the fact is that noone knows who looks in there and therefore to say it is or it is not your public might be true or not. If your watches cost over $2000, I have to say that your sphere or possible buying people is surely limited to those who can afford that much for a watch. But that does not mean that there are only a handful of them.

As for your ad, It is easier to notice a new ad posted then an ad removed. If it's not there, how do you know it's gone? Unless one specifically was looking for it and was actually trying to connect to you, chances are few people would notice any ad being removed. So don't worry about that, however the fact that it is now missing it's for sure less advertising for you.

The tuth is that WUS has lots of people visiting and selling lots of watches, lots of Rolexes, Panerai, etc. so I think it would be safe to say that the more people see your watches the more probablity you will have to sell some. There are other forums of course and you could make yourself known to those too, like TimeZone, TimeZone UK, Watch Talk Forum, etc. Even the Poor Man Watch Forum has a section for sale of higher priced watches and they sell them in there...

4. there are other ways to sell watches, look at MKII. They are not marketing anything else other then selling their watches, they are expensive but they are reportedly good. The guy there is always backlogged and it takes months if not years to get a watch...In short there is an actual word of mouth, in that someone gets the watch, is happy with it and then promotes it to his friends, etc. Other read the review, see the photos, know it's good and want to get one. I have no idea how many he sells but I know that one has to wait for months to get them and when they come up used, they are gone in a heartbeat. Also they keep their price pretty well. This is not really a marketing campaign but more the fact that people think these are good products and want them.

5. Of course if you want to just sell these you can also put them on Ebay, but obviously they still would need to inbue some confidence in people since they will have to spend quite a packet of dollars.

So what can you do? Well, of course this is the one million dollar question. I don't know all you can do since you will have to figure it out yourself. However here are a couple of possible helpers. You need to get your watches circulating and photos and data around the community, if I was you I would do something like this:

a. Take one of your watches and give it to someone to try out for a bit. Let's say you agree that he can keep it and wear if for a couple of weeks or something. in Exchange he can write a detailed review, honest and proper of his opinions, and post it in all possible watch forums. Ensure the guy can take good photos or maybe you can provide them yourself. But make him put these reviews in all forums. Don't limit yourself, just get these all over. Also don't try to "buy" the guy, the review needs to be honest and proper, saying what he thinks and consider plus and minuses.

b, Once this is done and review runs in different places, you can get the watch back and send it someone else who can do the same. Note that I am not saying that the guys are selling this for you, they are simply making your product known to other members, showing the photos, giving their impressions, positive or negative that they might be, etc. This is important because it needs to be the truth, not some phony review or tainted data.

c. Do it again with another WIS, at the same time if you have more then one watch, you can start rotating a new model. The point is that the photos and data can get around and start to be looked at, known by others and then people can open their own discussions etc. This would all be advertising for you. The key here is that they do what they really want and write what they really want to write because it would be the truth. The only thing is that they should have lots of photos and they should be well made to show the full beauty of the watches.

You can do this in a different way of course, my point though is simply that you need to get the data and photos out there so people start looking at these watches, know them, be interested in them, want to know more about them, etc.

d. Of course you can put ads on papers etc. but these are espensive and to a degree lack reality. A good review of a watch is what give a great reality on it, no matter what. Plus when the paper is gone, so is the ad.

The forums are there permanently and continual exposure, review, photos, etc. can make the watches more and more real to the WIS world.

Selling some of these should then make people start doing this on their own watches and from there you can be sure that you will get them sold...

Rekindle your viewpoint too, you are not just trying to make money or make up your expenses. You are giving the possibility to another WIS to wear a gorgeus time piece and make him happy and have him ejoy wearing a watch because it is a great watch and not just something to tell him the time. If that's all he wanted, a Timex would suffice. No, a WIS wants something more then a device to tell him time, he wants something that has a certain quality, that looks and feel in a certain way and you CAN give him what he is looking for.

Sorry for the long write up, I hope it makes sense. But I wanted to give you my view on this. Hope it helps.
No problem for the long write up, and always good to hear other peoples view points.
But I guess I was just surprised when after 6 months of having a thread running on the prototype, and a banner, it disappeared over night and not one person mentioned it.
Not even the banner that I was thinking about, but rather a long thread on the Thomas Prescher prototype, that I would have expected people to revisit for new news, that had gone and no one noticed.
It was a sticky too.

I do not care about selling watches, as strange as that may sound, I just want to sell them so I can make more models and look at other new ideas. One day far in the future, yes I would like this to be a business that turns over enough as for me to have a full time position and decent pay check. I would love to be involved with only watches in one way or another.
My position now is to find investment to make that happen, which I am already in the very early stages of doing.
It is the only way forward, as is retail, another avenue that I am already in the very early stages of sorting out.
I actually have two requests for that so far and one local shop that I plan to ask.
I have an interest in marketing, and it is even in some ways exciting to find no one noticed at WUS, as this is a small step to finding what works and what does not.
I enjoy this marketing work, and I have some big plans.
I will provide two blogs with my watch, as they have asked and been very helpful, but of course at this point in time I still need the watch back.
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Rome wasn't built in a day, but i wasn't on that job!


http://www.aegirinstruments.com

carlodwc

Re: Interesting thing

Post by carlodwc » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:28 am

Well, you have a grand plan and great vision. :thumbsup: I guess it is a matter of making ends meet, meaning to be able to produce, sell and deliver so you can produce more, sell more and deliver more. One thing with the marketing, ads, etc. what counts is the statistic, meaning the number or amount of the result you are expecting. Some comment or opinion about it is data but not necessarily important. So you are right, you need to find out what works, what get your watches known to the WIS world. :grin:

The above has worked for me. Not that I am making and selling watches, but I have observed that when I do a review of a watch and then some time later I decide to sell it, it goes faster. There are of course other factors, but I think that the above is one simple and basic thing that could be done to build up and put the brand on the chart more and more solidly where it can be admired and respected as it should. Good Luck mate, you deserve it. :cheers:

zivadavis
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:52 am

Re: Interesting thing

Post by zivadavis » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:32 pm

t20569cald wrote:
zivadavis wrote: is there any way to secure a spot for a cd-1 or a button to hit to pre-order one?........i would love to own the LE version of the cd-2 but its not in the budget these days.....so its the cd-1 for me and i certainly do not want to be late to that release...


zivadavis
I do not do pre-orders as such, as I wont hold money, but drop me an email
info@aegirinstruments.com with full name and email address, and I can add you to the list, and updates if you like.

No issues later if you change your mind, just let me know

information as requested sent via email.......


thanks

zivadavis

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