You want drama...
Re: You want drama...
Not really. When it was new it was closer to a $2k watch. That $23k # is absurd.BBK357 wrote:Damn... $35 movement in a 23k watch?
"It's such a fine line between stupid, and clever."
David St. Hubbins
David St. Hubbins
Re: You want drama...
It is a Unitas 6497. They have been in use forever in some very expensive watches.BBK357 wrote:Ok that's better but crap what a cheap movement.
"It's such a fine line between stupid, and clever."
David St. Hubbins
David St. Hubbins
Re: You want drama...
BBK357 wrote:Damn... $35 movement in a 23k watch?
Sounds like a Panerai LE to me.
- Expat
- Mama always said life is like a box of chocolates.
- Posts: 4633
- Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:52 am
- Name: Bill
- Location: Jersey
Re: You want drama...
I think we're bashing Pam a bit here. There's plenty of vintage Rolex that sell for way more than 10 and even 20x original cost. Simple no complication, like the Subs, or standard chronos. How about a $75k Newman Daytona.
This was a very limited number piece that plays a cool place in Panerai's development. If you value its right there with Rolex.
The 2 things that amaze me are:
Buying a $23k watch, in market flooded with fakes and frankens, without having it looked over before buying it. You're not buying this as a beach beater, its an investment, even if you wear it.
The fact the guy tried to flip it for a profit, couldn't sell it, then did this. If he came into me when I was in economic crime, I would tell him to sue the guy if wants redress. I wouldn't waste 10 minutes of an investigators time on it, because his story stinks too.
This was a very limited number piece that plays a cool place in Panerai's development. If you value its right there with Rolex.
The 2 things that amaze me are:
Buying a $23k watch, in market flooded with fakes and frankens, without having it looked over before buying it. You're not buying this as a beach beater, its an investment, even if you wear it.
The fact the guy tried to flip it for a profit, couldn't sell it, then did this. If he came into me when I was in economic crime, I would tell him to sue the guy if wants redress. I wouldn't waste 10 minutes of an investigators time on it, because his story stinks too.
"30ish years of martial arts and I've actually had the honor of training lots of LEO, spec ops and even SEAL team 6 on base, fitness training, not martial arts, but still the coolest thing I've done.
Full on egg head corporate job and I fly quite a bit so I'm really looking forward to adding to my collection of TSA friendly self defense tools. I have amcouple tactical pens, but I want to up the game and get into some custom stuff. Been watch obsessed for a while but this seems more fun.
Thanks for letting me play! "
citizenfox
Full on egg head corporate job and I fly quite a bit so I'm really looking forward to adding to my collection of TSA friendly self defense tools. I have amcouple tactical pens, but I want to up the game and get into some custom stuff. Been watch obsessed for a while but this seems more fun.
Thanks for letting me play! "
citizenfox
- demer03
- Current Forecast: Vintage Doxa
- Posts: 19553
- Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:41 pm
- Name: Mike
- Location: Lake Michigami
Re: You want drama...
Panerai is not Rolex.....
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
Re: You want drama...
+1 Bill +1Expat wrote:I think we're bashing Pam a bit here. There's plenty of vintage Rolex that sell for way more than 10 and even 20x original cost. Simple no complication, like the Subs, or standard chronos. How about a $75k Newman Daytona.
This was a very limited number piece that plays a cool place in Panerai's development. If you value its right there with Rolex.
The 2 things that amaze me are:
Buying a $23k watch, in market flooded with fakes and frankens, without having it looked over before buying it. You're not buying this as a beach beater, its an investment, even if you wear it.
The fact the guy tried to flip it for a profit, couldn't sell it, then did this. If he came into me when I was in economic crime, I would tell him to sue the guy if wants redress. I wouldn't waste 10 minutes of an investigators time on it, because his story stinks too.
Re: You want drama...
Rolex is nothing special either.demer03 wrote:Panerai is not Rolex.....
It's a mass-priduced high quality product with minimal involvement of a human watchmaker.
At least Panerai is somewhat limited in production numbers. I think they make more Rolex Subs than Honda Accords.
- demer03
- Current Forecast: Vintage Doxa
- Posts: 19553
- Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:41 pm
- Name: Mike
- Location: Lake Michigami
Re: You want drama...
Sorry. I like P...I really do.Panerai7 wrote:Rolex is nothing special either.demer03 wrote:Panerai is not Rolex.....
It's a mass-priduced high quality product with minimal involvement of a human watchmaker.
At least Panerai is somewhat limited in production numbers. I think they make more Rolex Subs than Honda Accords.
But...I do believe Rolex is way above them on many levels. Panerai make some cool stuff, but it is comparing apples and oranges in my humble opinion.
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
- Expat
- Mama always said life is like a box of chocolates.
- Posts: 4633
- Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:52 am
- Name: Bill
- Location: Jersey
Re: You want drama...
Rolex wasn't Rolex either when Comex was selling Subs to there guys for $300.demer03 wrote:Panerai is not Rolex.....
"30ish years of martial arts and I've actually had the honor of training lots of LEO, spec ops and even SEAL team 6 on base, fitness training, not martial arts, but still the coolest thing I've done.
Full on egg head corporate job and I fly quite a bit so I'm really looking forward to adding to my collection of TSA friendly self defense tools. I have amcouple tactical pens, but I want to up the game and get into some custom stuff. Been watch obsessed for a while but this seems more fun.
Thanks for letting me play! "
citizenfox
Full on egg head corporate job and I fly quite a bit so I'm really looking forward to adding to my collection of TSA friendly self defense tools. I have amcouple tactical pens, but I want to up the game and get into some custom stuff. Been watch obsessed for a while but this seems more fun.
Thanks for letting me play! "
citizenfox
Re: You want drama...
Yes, those shitty bracelets and fucked up dials are amazing testaments to Rolex quality.demer03 wrote:Sorry. I like P...I really do.Panerai7 wrote:Rolex is nothing special either.demer03 wrote:Panerai is not Rolex.....
It's a mass-priduced high quality product with minimal involvement of a human watchmaker.
At least Panerai is somewhat limited in production numbers. I think they make more Rolex Subs than Honda Accords.
But...I do believe Rolex is way above them on many levels. Panerai make some cool stuff, but it is comparing apples and oranges in my humble opinion.
"It's such a fine line between stupid, and clever."
David St. Hubbins
David St. Hubbins
- demer03
- Current Forecast: Vintage Doxa
- Posts: 19553
- Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:41 pm
- Name: Mike
- Location: Lake Michigami
Re: You want drama...
Your fantasy....make it how you wantCGSshorty wrote:Yes, those shitty bracelets and fucked up dials are amazing testaments to Rolex quality.demer03 wrote:Sorry. I like P...I really do.Panerai7 wrote:Rolex is nothing special either.demer03 wrote:Panerai is not Rolex.....
It's a mass-priduced high quality product with minimal involvement of a human watchmaker.
At least Panerai is somewhat limited in production numbers. I think they make more Rolex Subs than Honda Accords.
But...I do believe Rolex is way above them on many levels. Panerai make some cool stuff, but it is comparing apples and oranges in my humble opinion.
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
Re: You want drama...
Really Mike? Are you going to make the argument that the bracelet from any Rolex made before the last few years was a high quality bracelet? Guys use fantasy to justify that a watch with a cracked dial and saggy bracelet are worth a fortune all the time. Is it only Rolex that gets to use fantasy to justify high secondary prices?demer03 wrote:Your fantasy....make it how you wantCGSshorty wrote:Yes, those shitty bracelets and fucked up dials are amazing testaments to Rolex quality.demer03 wrote:Sorry. I like P...I really do.Panerai7 wrote:Rolex is nothing special either.demer03 wrote:Panerai is not Rolex.....
It's a mass-priduced high quality product with minimal involvement of a human watchmaker.
At least Panerai is somewhat limited in production numbers. I think they make more Rolex Subs than Honda Accords.
But...I do believe Rolex is way above them on many levels. Panerai make some cool stuff, but it is comparing apples and oranges in my humble opinion.
I am certainly not saying that the Panerai in question should ever have sold for what it did, but lots of shitty watches sell for questionable prices all the time.
"It's such a fine line between stupid, and clever."
David St. Hubbins
David St. Hubbins
Re: You want drama...
It's a "spider" or "tropic" dial and it adds character and value to a watch. Now open the crown on the zero, let some moisture in, and watch the value skyrocketCGSshorty wrote:Yes, those shitty bracelets and fucked up dials are amazing testaments to Rolex quality.demer03 wrote:Sorry. I like P...I really do.Panerai7 wrote:Rolex is nothing special either.demer03 wrote:Panerai is not Rolex.....
It's a mass-priduced high quality product with minimal involvement of a human watchmaker.
At least Panerai is somewhat limited in production numbers. I think they make more Rolex Subs than Honda Accords.
But...I do believe Rolex is way above them on many levels. Panerai make some cool stuff, but it is comparing apples and oranges in my humble opinion.
- demer03
- Current Forecast: Vintage Doxa
- Posts: 19553
- Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:41 pm
- Name: Mike
- Location: Lake Michigami
Re: You want drama...
CGSshorty wrote:Really Mike? Are you going to make the argument that the bracelet from any Rolex made before the last few years was a high quality bracelet? Guys use fantasy to justify that a watch with a cracked dial and saggy bracelet are worth a fortune all the time. Is it only Rolex that gets to use fantasy to justify high secondary prices?demer03 wrote:Your fantasy....make it how you wantCGSshorty wrote:Yes, those shitty bracelets and fucked up dials are amazing testaments to Rolex quality.demer03 wrote:Sorry. I like P...I really do.Panerai7 wrote:Rolex is nothing special either.demer03 wrote:Panerai is not Rolex.....
It's a mass-priduced high quality product with minimal involvement of a human watchmaker.
At least Panerai is somewhat limited in production numbers. I think they make more Rolex Subs than Honda Accords.
But...I do believe Rolex is way above them on many levels. Panerai make some cool stuff, but it is comparing apples and oranges in my humble opinion.
I am certainly not saying that the Panerai in question should ever have sold for what it did, but lots of shitty watches sell for questionable prices all the time.
All kidding aside, Yeah, I don't think 40-50 year old watches are expected to look new. The "effects you see today are often due to their use....not shitty construction. The fact that Rolex nuts, like P nuts create these "rare" named conditions is a weird situation that only goofy WIS's could imagine. We'll see what "new Panerai" look like when they get there.
Again, I am not disparaging P at all. It is just not the same as a company like R with the horsepower/service/manufacturing/ etc. That's all I'm saying.
They make a perfectly fine wristwatch, but hello? Brooklyn?? Shit happens in manufacturing, but I guess I still see P as a reincarnation of a former company that relied on a perceived history to come back.
I am not bashing....but to compare the two corporations seems a bit silly.
My opinion, and not that of DWC nor any of it's sponsors.
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
Re: You want drama...
You are right Mike, Richemont may as well be a backyard mechanic shop compared to Rolex.
"It's such a fine line between stupid, and clever."
David St. Hubbins
David St. Hubbins
- demer03
- Current Forecast: Vintage Doxa
- Posts: 19553
- Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:41 pm
- Name: Mike
- Location: Lake Michigami
Re: You want drama...
*sigh*
You are putting words in my mouth....
Both good....not the same.
You are putting words in my mouth....
Both good....not the same.
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
Re: You want drama...
I don't think Mike's original argument was that Panerai sucks compared to Rolex. But comparing this faux-vintage Panerai (10-20 year old watches with EASILY currently sourced mass-produced movement = vintage and $20k???) to actual vintage Rolex (many watches which have a documented history and place within horology or cultural history - i.e. Newman Daytona) and saying they're somehow on par is making an argument for argument's sake. No one in their right logical mind can say that they're the same, even if you don't get Rolex or don't get vintage.
I got no dog in the fight. These days, I am more heavy on Panerai than Rolex, but you can't deny the difference in the way the companies (or fanboys of the companies) are using the word vintage. Now, if we were talking Panerai 6154 or any other ACTUAL vintage, that'd be different. But we're talking stupid "Pre-V" or "Pre-A" which are virtually identical to the watches that they mass produce today yet somehow command a premium because some Paneristi nerd proclaimed them extra special.
Leave the poor guy alone.
I got no dog in the fight. These days, I am more heavy on Panerai than Rolex, but you can't deny the difference in the way the companies (or fanboys of the companies) are using the word vintage. Now, if we were talking Panerai 6154 or any other ACTUAL vintage, that'd be different. But we're talking stupid "Pre-V" or "Pre-A" which are virtually identical to the watches that they mass produce today yet somehow command a premium because some Paneristi nerd proclaimed them extra special.
Leave the poor guy alone.
- demer03
- Current Forecast: Vintage Doxa
- Posts: 19553
- Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:41 pm
- Name: Mike
- Location: Lake Michigami
Re: You want drama...
matt.wu wrote:Leave the poor guy alone.
Now, let's talk Kobold....
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
Re: You want drama...
Now Kobold, not even I can bring myself to defend. I love the watches a lot, but the company blows in pretty much every respect these days.demer03 wrote:matt.wu wrote:Leave the poor guy alone.
Now, let's talk Kobold....
- demer03
- Current Forecast: Vintage Doxa
- Posts: 19553
- Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:41 pm
- Name: Mike
- Location: Lake Michigami
Re: You want drama...
Yep. Too bad he peaked and crashed.
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
- JP Chestnut
- Posts: 17816
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- Name: Jacob
- Location: Ithaca, NY USA
Re: You want drama...
This is an interesting comment because it perfectly matches my (admittedly ignorant) opinion of the brand. Can someone knowledgeable confirm or refute that current Panerai is a purchased name reincarnation of the original company?demer03 wrote:...but I guess I still see P as a reincarnation of a former company that relied on a perceived history to come back.CGSshorty wrote:Really Mike? Are you going to make the argument that the bracelet from any Rolex made before the last few years was a high quality bracelet? Guys use fantasy to justify that a watch with a cracked dial and saggy bracelet are worth a fortune all the time. Is it only Rolex that gets to use fantasy to justify high secondary prices?demer03 wrote:Your fantasy....make it how you wantCGSshorty wrote:Yes, those shitty bracelets and fucked up dials are amazing testaments to Rolex quality.demer03 wrote:Sorry. I like P...I really do.Panerai7 wrote:Rolex is nothing special either.demer03 wrote:Panerai is not Rolex.....
It's a mass-priduced high quality product with minimal involvement of a human watchmaker.
At least Panerai is somewhat limited in production numbers. I think they make more Rolex Subs than Honda Accords.
But...I do believe Rolex is way above them on many levels. Panerai make some cool stuff, but it is comparing apples and oranges in my humble opinion.
I am certainly not saying that the Panerai in question should ever have sold for what it did, but lots of shitty watches sell for questionable prices all the time.
Re: You want drama...
Oversimplified..... it is.JP Chestnut wrote: This is an interesting comment because it perfectly matches my (admittedly ignorant) opinion of the brand. Can someone knowledgeable confirm or refute that current Panerai is a purchased name reincarnation of the original company?
Re: You want drama...
Kobolds wouldn't be the only one. Doxa also comes to mind.demer03 wrote:Yep. Too bad he peaked and crashed.
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