You want drama...

Discussion of Panerai watches.
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Expat
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You want drama...

Post by Expat » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:31 am

You got it. The "vintage", meaning 20 years old, Pam world is not for te faint of heart.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/353391/t ... lease+help
"30ish years of martial arts and I've actually had the honor of training lots of LEO, spec ops and even SEAL team 6 on base, fitness training, not martial arts, but still the coolest thing I've done.

Full on egg head corporate job and I fly quite a bit so I'm really looking forward to adding to my collection of TSA friendly self defense tools. I have amcouple tactical pens, but I want to up the game and get into some custom stuff. Been watch obsessed for a while but this seems more fun.

Thanks for letting me play! "



citizenfox

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BBK357
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Re: You want drama...

Post by BBK357 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:36 am

over $23000.>>>::::??????
It looks like a 4k one.
I truly dont get Pams
DEATH FROM ABOVE
:ak:

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Expat
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Re: You want drama...

Post by Expat » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:41 am

I get them. And I'll be buying another soon.

But you absolutely need to get an expert to look at any Pam you buy before buying. Even of you buy it here from someone trusted, unless they bought it an AD, they could have been played. And the Pre- A and Pre -V world is just insane.
"30ish years of martial arts and I've actually had the honor of training lots of LEO, spec ops and even SEAL team 6 on base, fitness training, not martial arts, but still the coolest thing I've done.

Full on egg head corporate job and I fly quite a bit so I'm really looking forward to adding to my collection of TSA friendly self defense tools. I have amcouple tactical pens, but I want to up the game and get into some custom stuff. Been watch obsessed for a while but this seems more fun.

Thanks for letting me play! "



citizenfox

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Re: You want drama...

Post by dukerules » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:53 am

This 40 drama is a disaster, it's clearly a "franken" 40, who knows when or why it happened, unfortunately Clive was the one who got caught holding the dud.

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Re: You want drama...

Post by Expat » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:05 am

A friend of mine had a Franken 4, but he knew it was Franken. Case, dial, xtal, hands gen with a newish Unitas. Still worth close to $5k. I suspect movement got wet, or jacked up by bad watch smith, and someone along the line stuck in the movement.
"30ish years of martial arts and I've actually had the honor of training lots of LEO, spec ops and even SEAL team 6 on base, fitness training, not martial arts, but still the coolest thing I've done.

Full on egg head corporate job and I fly quite a bit so I'm really looking forward to adding to my collection of TSA friendly self defense tools. I have amcouple tactical pens, but I want to up the game and get into some custom stuff. Been watch obsessed for a while but this seems more fun.

Thanks for letting me play! "



citizenfox

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Re: You want drama...

Post by Expat » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:05 am

A friend of mine had a Franken 4, but he knew it was Franken. Case, dial, xtal, hands gen with a newish Unitas. Still worth close to $5k. I suspect movement got wet, or jacked up by bad watch smith, and someone along the line stuck in the movement.
"30ish years of martial arts and I've actually had the honor of training lots of LEO, spec ops and even SEAL team 6 on base, fitness training, not martial arts, but still the coolest thing I've done.

Full on egg head corporate job and I fly quite a bit so I'm really looking forward to adding to my collection of TSA friendly self defense tools. I have amcouple tactical pens, but I want to up the game and get into some custom stuff. Been watch obsessed for a while but this seems more fun.

Thanks for letting me play! "



citizenfox

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Re: You want drama...

Post by unixshrk » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:24 am

aboen wrote:23k :banghead:

That is what I was thinking

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Re: You want drama...

Post by demer03 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:16 am

aboen wrote:23k :banghead:
Listen, I think PAM's are cool.....but NEVER 23K cool.

I mean...Red Sub's, EXPII's from the 70's. Hell, one of each for that price.

I do NOT get that. It's not even "vintage"...
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Re: You want drama...

Post by rockmastermike » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:25 am

$$$ vintage scares me, just too many variables out there for me to account for. I'd love to get into a few "collectible" vintage like PAM and Rolex but damn.

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Re: You want drama...

Post by JP Chestnut » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:32 am

rockmastermike wrote:$$$ vintage scares me, just too many variables out there for me to account for. I'd love to get into a few "collectible" vintage like PAM and Rolex but damn.
Even if you're willing to put in a ton of effort understanding all the special aspects of whatever you're buying it seems like a total minefield. The best you can do is buy from reputable sellers and hope for the best. It's really a shame that this guy didn't open the watch the second he got it. Then he might have had some recourse with his seller.

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Re: You want drama...

Post by Pasquale » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:33 am

Meta4ick (rick) has that model, I believe.
the real one.
Pasquale

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Re: You want drama...

Post by meta4ick » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:49 am

The pricing is solid for an 040 with all the bells and whistles. The 040 was a special PAM in that it was a test watch to see if titanium would be desirable in the USA. Low edition, but basic boxing, making it more unusual. The lume on mine didn't look anywhere near that fresh. I released mine earlier this year.

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Re: You want drama...

Post by matt.wu » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:49 am

patstarrx wrote:Meta4ick (rick) has that model, I believe.
the real one.
Yup. I think he sold it though....

*edit* - Simultaneous post ^. :lol:
:htfu:

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Re: You want drama...

Post by Panerai7 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:59 am

Panerai FTMFW!!!
sorry couldn't help it

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Re: You want drama...

Post by JBZ » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:08 pm

I'm amazed anyone would spend this much on any watch without being 100% sure of what they were buying (though I imagine it happens all the time).
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Re: You want drama...

Post by JP Chestnut » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:17 pm

JBZ wrote:I'm amazed anyone would spend this much on any watch without being 100% sure of what they were buying (though I imagine it happens all the time).
When people ask the forums about buying a second hand watch, they're almost 100% told to "buy the seller". Perhaps this guy purchased the watch from an extremely well regarded seller based on the strength of that guy's reputation. Sometimes that doesn't work out. It's a very shitty situation that could have been avoided had the purchaser had the watch opened immediately up arrival. That would have been the time to figure out what's what.

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Re: You want drama...

Post by JBZ » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:54 pm

JP Chestnut wrote:
JBZ wrote:I'm amazed anyone would spend this much on any watch without being 100% sure of what they were buying (though I imagine it happens all the time).
When people ask the forums about buying a second hand watch, they're almost 100% told to "buy the seller". Perhaps this guy purchased the watch from an extremely well regarded seller based on the strength of that guy's reputation. Sometimes that doesn't work out. It's a very shitty situation that could have been avoided had the purchaser had the watch opened immediately up arrival. That would have been the time to figure out what's what.
True, and I'm sure there are all sorts of situations where a good seller makes an honest mistake. However, this isn't a case of a $6,000 watch actually being worth $4,000 because the dial was relumed or replaced or something. If I were going to invest $23,000 in a watch, I'd make damn sure I was getting what I paid for. If I wasn't sure on my own and the seller wouldn't submit to an independent inspection or appraisal, I wouldn't do the deal.

Of course, for some, paying $23,000 is no big deal, but for most of us it would be.
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Re: You want drama...

Post by JP Chestnut » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:53 pm

JBZ wrote:
JP Chestnut wrote:
JBZ wrote:I'm amazed anyone would spend this much on any watch without being 100% sure of what they were buying (though I imagine it happens all the time).
When people ask the forums about buying a second hand watch, they're almost 100% told to "buy the seller". Perhaps this guy purchased the watch from an extremely well regarded seller based on the strength of that guy's reputation. Sometimes that doesn't work out. It's a very shitty situation that could have been avoided had the purchaser had the watch opened immediately up arrival. That would have been the time to figure out what's what.
True, and I'm sure there are all sorts of situations where a good seller makes an honest mistake. However, this isn't a case of a $6,000 watch actually being worth $4,000 because the dial was relumed or replaced or something. If I were going to invest $23,000 in a watch, I'd make damn sure I was getting what I paid for. If I wasn't sure on my own and the seller wouldn't submit to an independent inspection or appraisal, I wouldn't do the deal.

Of course, for some, paying $23,000 is no big deal, but for most of us it would be.
I absolutely agree with you, which is why I have zero interest in collecting vintage watches despite loving them - I simply don't have the time or inclination required to perform due diligence on something rare or unusual. It's getting harder and harder to buy off the general forums. Nearly every watch is "mint" yet exhibits obvious flaws.

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Re: You want drama...

Post by fastward » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:26 pm

$24k for an online watch deal? :excited:

I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
PM me. Serious offers only.

Payment by wire.

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Re: You want drama...

Post by sinner » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:48 pm

So the guy buys a $23,000 watch on an installment plan, tries to flip it for a profit but can't, decides after 5 months to verify that it's authentic, finds out it is at best a Franken watch, then tries to trade it away without disclosing that there are real issues with it...
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Re: You want drama...

Post by demer03 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:49 pm

Ed...WWBDD?

Priceless
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Re: You want drama...

Post by greenlightning » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:29 pm

What a fucking mess. Would hate to be in any part of that dumpster fire.

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Re: You want drama...

Post by CGSshorty » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:34 pm

sinner wrote:So the guy buys a $23,000 watch on an installment plan, tries to flip it for a profit but can't, decides after 5 months to verify that it's authentic, finds out it is at best a Franken watch, then tries to trade it away without disclosing that there are real issues with it...
Hard to feel too bad for him.
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Re: You want drama...

Post by logan2z » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:58 pm

I get PAMs but I don't get vintage PAMs. Spending $23K for a watch with a simple Unitas movement (that even the seller admitted was worth about $35) seems kind of outrageous to me. Same with 'Fiddys'. $20k? I'd personally rather have a 372 with in-house movement for less than 1/2 of that :shrug:

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Re: You want drama...

Post by matt.wu » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:20 pm

Agreed. There is nothing valuable about most vintage Panerai (other than Angelus stuff, etc...). It's always been a bubble waiting to burst (and sounds like it's well on its way).
:htfu:

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