Got my Sinn 103 back

Discussion of Sinn watches.
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rockmastermike
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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by rockmastermike » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:12 pm

River Rat wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:04 pm
Well I sent a email to see the statist on my 103 and you know how they want to fix it replace the sweep hand that distinctive Heuer Bund type hand with patina is what makes it WTF white colored hand with a hand shape like every other Sinn 103 that will look out of place with the rest of the golden colored patina on the dial what did they do screw it up. They better solve it with the original hand or give me a full refund for a botched job. And I will send it to a watchmaker that will do what they can't.
Damn, Mike that sucks. sorry you're having to endure this. :scream:
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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by BBK357 » Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:27 am

River Rat wrote:Well I sent a email to see the statist on my 103 and you know how they want to fix it replace the sweep hand that distinctive Heuer Bund type hand with patina is what makes it WTF white colored hand with a hand shape like every other Sinn 103 that will look out of place with the rest of the golden colored patina on the dial what did they do screw it up. They better solve it with the original hand or give me a full refund for a botched job. And I will send it to a watchmaker that will do what they can't.


Was it just a suggestion?

I've had multiple watch repair companies- big and small suggest that I change vintage hands or dials. It's not set in stone. But when I send vintage out, I always put on the slip that I want to keep original dial, hands, bezel, etc...
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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by River Rat » Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:48 am

Well I just talked to Vikki. I said don't change the hand. I got another watchmaker lined up he just worked on my Lemania deck watch he said he has worked on problem hands before. I ask RGM to ship it to him they would not so I get it back then reship back to the east coast so now RGM prolongs my bull shit in getting my watch fixed.

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by River Rat » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:47 pm

Well I sent the Sinn to another watchmaker here is the reply back about the sweep hand.
Question: Was the Sinn serviced? Watchmaker is not sure! He says if it was it is “shameful”. They tried to glue the hand to the post as well.

Wonder if I should contact RGM for a refund since they did not know what the shit they were doing.

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by hoppyjr » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:29 pm

River Rat wrote:Well I sent the Sinn to another watchmaker here is the reply back about the sweep hand.
Question: Was the Sinn serviced? Watchmaker is not sure! He says if it was it is “shameful”. They tried to glue the hand to the post as well.

Wonder if I should contact RGM for a refund since they did not know what the shit they were doing.
I ask the new watchmaker to give you something in writing and maybe snap a couple photos. Then I'd definitely go back to RGM and make my thoughts known.

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by CGSshorty » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:05 am

Keep us up to date and definitely have them take some photos. I'm sure the guys at WatchBuys would like to know what RGM did or did not do.
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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by River Rat » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:40 pm

The watchmaker did not want to get into a he said and he said thing. The problem was the hand was rotating on the tube, RGM tried gluing it. He spot soldered it from the back (you can't see it) so it should hold as good as the original. He done this repair many times I was told. Better than putting a new sweep hand that would not have the bund hand look and miss matched lume RGM wanted to do.
 

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by toxicavenger » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:51 pm

I get they tried to glue it back to the post since it separated, but it might have been their only option since you wanted to keep the og hand. Personally I would have changed the hands before I relied on some glue/solder to hold it on. Because that is asking for trouble if it gets bumped. Not to mention the watchmaker would be liable for it because of a half ass fix.

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by River Rat » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:21 pm

Terry the Bund hand is what made it different and what made me do a trade for it. I traded a Benthos 500 for it due to it was as rare as the benthos with the hand wind movement and that different style bund hand that was a special order back in the day. On my Eterna Kontiki Super IDF the bracelet as rare as that hand the clasp broke had it micro welded it's been holding going on 6 or more years and that's one heavy watch. But your not a vintage collector so a different mind set. It would also decrease the value by putting a new hand on it when I posted at MWR when I first got it I had a PM of a member wanting to buy it due to it was a early model Sinn with that distinctive hand. Think I only saw 2-3 of these with the Sinn 103 with bund style hand those were at a German forum I had to use google translator to read the thread.

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by toxicavenger » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:43 pm

River Rat wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:21 pm
Terry the Bund hand is what made it different and what made me do a trade for it. I traded a Benthos 500 for it due to it was as rare as the benthos with the hand wind movement and that different style bund hand that was a special order back in the day. On my Eterna Kontiki Super IDF the bracelet as rare as that hand the clasp broke had it micro welded it's been holding going on 6 or more years and that's one heavy watch. But your not a vintage collector so a different mind set. It would also decrease the value by putting a new hand on it when I posted at MWR when I first got it I had a PM of a member wanting to buy it due to it was a early model Sinn with that distinctive hand. Think I only saw 2-3 of these with the Sinn 103 with bund style hand those were at a German forum I had to use google translator to read the thread.
I totally understand the rarity of it. But the metal on a watch hand is super thin, so the probability of fixing it correctly is super small compared to clasp made of 22 gauge metal. Honestly I would have told you I wouldn't touch it. Because I am opening the door for liability if I mess the hand up or if it breaks again. To much of a gamble imo. RGM should have just sent the watch back to you or to Sinn and washed their hands of it.

But like I have said before. There are all different kinds of watchmakers. Some might have some experience in doing these mods. But I bet most don't.

I hope it is fixed for you. But I hope you see that RGm might not have many options.

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by JP Chestnut » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:50 pm

Vintage watches look cool, but man that practicality. Some of these seem like wrist bound time bombs.

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by toxicavenger » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:54 pm

JP Chestnut wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:50 pm
Vintage watches look cool, but man that practicality. Some of these seem like wrist bound time bombs.
Bro I see Seiko Bellmatic's in my nightmares!!! :banghead: Pain in the ass for sure.

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by River Rat » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:31 pm

There are watchmakers that know there stuff then there are those that are just turds. I know I used a lot of them in California some were well trained and others screwed up a watch if they can screw up a vintage watch they can screw up a new watch it don't matter. That's why I am picky who I send stuff to. My oldest watch is from 1812 a fusee pocket watch it still works as long as you find the right watchmaker who knows his stuff they work perfect RGM was the first in years that could not repair some thing so sent it to some one who specializes in vintage watches who knows the tricks of the trade and no more nightmares. I had a Glycine airman were the wire hacking was broke most vintage Glycine airman watches the hacking don't work any more and any watchmaker who has never worked on one does not knows how to fix them that's why so many on the market that don't hack. Well I found a watchmaker who specializes in fixing them the wire the size of a human hair he was able to fix it. You get the right watchmaker any watch is a piece of cake to get serviced. And that Fusee pocket watch from 1812 there is a old repair of one of the hands were it broke it was welded together maybe a 100 years ago who knows but still holding so watchmakers who know there stuff been doing that for years.
Last edited by River Rat on Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by JP Chestnut » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:38 pm

It's parts availability and damage from shock that worries me. I'd love a Tudor Snowflake, but one unfortunate knock and you have a lumeless hand. Sure it can happen to any watch, but it's much easier to replace a hand on a five digit Rolex Sub.

I wish I had the cash to not care about that stuff, but I don't.

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by River Rat » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:44 pm

I wear my Snowfake with no worry even took it on a backpacking trip I don't treat them like safe queens but am more careful with them than a Seiko.

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by River Rat » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:48 am

This is for Terry here is a hand repair on a 205 year old watch it's the minute hand who knows when the hand was repaired but watchmakers have been doing it since watchmakers been repairing watches and this one been holding for over a 100 years. You can see it broke in the middle and some how welded together. Just some watchmakers don't know how to do it any more a lost art I was lucky to find one for my Sinn 103 that still knew how to do a hand repair. I think he just made the hole smaller in the hand so it was not loose when you reset the chrono function there was no brake like you were thinking just wear from use that made the hole in the sweep hand bigger through the years so it slipped. Still can't believe RGM used glue.
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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by hoppyjr » Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:54 pm

I've got to give Mike a solid salute for that dedication to vintage stuff.

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by toxicavenger » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:08 pm

I don't think you are understanding the liability aspect I am speaking of.

But I agree it is lost art. And these dudes make more money doing quick repairs. If someone had the extra cash to go out and buy a specialty​ welded just this type of jobs then go for it. But they wouldn't get enough jobs to pay for that welded. Not to mention the metal on that 205 watch might be thicker and better metal used today. Hell I bet you they even we're able to braze that hand on. But your newer Sinn is no where near the same. It's like saying "well I repaired a 1902 car with it then why can't I do it on my new Impala."

I do think RGM was wrong the way they attempted to repair it. But maybe it worked in the past.

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by JP Chestnut » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:16 pm

toxicavenger wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:08 pm
I don't think you are understanding the liability aspect I am speaking of.

But I agree it is lost art. And these dudes make more money doing quick repairs. If someone had the extra cash to go out and buy a specialty​ welded just this type of jobs then go for it. But they wouldn't get enough jobs to pay for that welded. Not to mention the metal on that 205 watch might be thicker and better metal used today. Hell I bet you they even we're able to braze that hand on. But your newer Sinn is no where near the same. It's like saying "well I repaired a 1902 car with it then why can't I do it on my new Impala."

I do think RGM was wrong the way they attempted to repair it. But maybe it worked in the past.
Even hands from the 1970/1980s versus now are different. Those older ones were designed to press on/off a few times before getting ruined. The new ones are almost throwaway if you're not careful.

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by toxicavenger » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:25 pm

JP Chestnut wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:16 pm
toxicavenger wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:08 pm
I don't think you are understanding the liability aspect I am speaking of.

But I agree it is lost art. And these dudes make more money doing quick repairs. If someone had the extra cash to go out and buy a specialty​ welded just this type of jobs then go for it. But they wouldn't get enough jobs to pay for that welded. Not to mention the metal on that 205 watch might be thicker and better metal used today. Hell I bet you they even we're able to braze that hand on. But your newer Sinn is no where near the same. It's like saying "well I repaired a 1902 car with it then why can't I do it on my new Impala."

I do think RGM was wrong the way they attempted to repair it. But maybe it worked in the past.
Even hands from the 1970/1980s versus now are different. Those older ones were designed to press on/off a few times before getting ruined. The new ones are almost throwaway if you're not careful.
Agreed

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by River Rat » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:45 pm

For Terry what's wrong with having it done right and resetting at the twelve every time :shrug:
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Dam great better than a normal 103 hand any day of the week. Some watchmaker have not forgotten how to do it. A lost art with some other watchmakers. Probably the first time it reset at the twelve every time in a long dam time just wished RGM could of done it. Dam I paid for a full service expecting it to be fixed and it was not they wanted to do a short cut just slap the wrong style hand. It came originally special order with the bund hand in the 1980's hell a all white and the style every other tom dick and harry has on there 103 would of been just wrong just pissing me off I had to send it to some one else to have it done right dam another 50 bucks even ask RGM to send it to the watchmaker I had in mind to fix it they would not and prolonged the agony send it back to me and then I pay again for shipping to the other watchmaker WTF. And no glue involved in this repair.

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by zepp21 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:37 pm

Mike, I believe that is the "dice" you will roll when owning vintage watches. Vintage parts, IE: your chrono hand, are not always available, meaning that any watchmaker will need to fix this to the best of their ability. Maybe RGM only had glue on hand. Maybe the could have done a better job. Maybe your current hand will hold up. Maybe it will fall apart in 5 days. That's the game you play with some of these vintage watches. Price for vintage, whether $5 or $5k doesn't matter. It's a part of owning it. I wouldn't say RGM is incompetent, they'll probably did the best they could, with what they were given and the demands of the client (you).

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by River Rat » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:55 pm

I had a rare depollier watch one of the first wristwatch with a screw type crown it went through 2 incompetent watchmakers. It had a Illinois watch movement. It gave me so many problems then I took it to WU's watchmaker don't know if WU still uses him. But during the service he found a wrong size jewel one of those two clowns I took it to that that devalued it put in a jewel to small they used glue to hold it in all ways wondered why the movement would stop. To me glue is the wrong thing to use. Well that watch was in perfect condition and I sold it for double what I paid for it due to a dissent watchmaker who did not use glue as a short cut.

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Re: Got my Sinn 103 back

Post by River Rat » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:03 pm

Basically this is what the watchmaker did. On the hand there is a tube that you attached to the post on the movement. Well the hand got loose on the tube so it would move. Some one did try to glue it not saying who could of been a old repair. Well the watchmaker removed the tube cleaned all the paint from the tube and paint around the bottom of the hand were the tube goes so he could spot soldered the tube to the hand from underneath for a clean soldered so it can't be seen and put the had back on the post done. Simple repair for a experienced watchmaker who knows how to do it with out melting the hand I guess a lost art with most younger watchmakers or ones not trained to do it.

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