Question on Sub C ND 1140460 pre-owned pricing

[Abmw]

So i've been waiting for over a year to get the Seadweller 50th Anniversary with no news from any of the ADs that I put my name in their "list". I finally saw one in person and wasnt blown away by it as it seemed very similar to my DeepSea. Now i have an opportunity to pick up a pre-owned SubC ND 1yr old for $8200 mint condition. What do you guys think of the price and are Subs really impossible to get still (I am on So Cal). I checked Watchrecon and they usually sell for $8600-$9k for the age but i am not sure if thats the grey dealer pumping up the price. i really prefer a datw but at this point i can live without a date.

[Chocodove]

As a reference, a very well known grey dealer offered me $7k cash for my 1.5 year old example a couple of months ago. I’d expect that offer to be higher right now.

These prices are crazy. I know I’d never be able to replace mine in the current market.

[Abmw]

As a reference, a very well known grey dealer offered me $7k cash for my 1.5 year old example a couple of months ago. I’d expect that offer to be higher right now.

These prices are crazy. I know I’d never be able to replace mine in the current market.

Thanks for the feedback. I just checked DavidSW website and cant believe the prices in the grey market.

[matt.wu]

So i've been waiting for over a year to get the Seadweller 50th Anniversary with no news from any of the ADs that I put my name in their "list". I finally saw one in person and wasnt blown away by it as it seemed very similar to my DeepSea. Now i have an opportunity to pick up a pre-owned SubC ND 1yr old for $8200 mint condition. What do you guys think of the price and are Subs really impossible to get still (I am on So Cal). I checked Watchrecon and they usually sell for $8600-$9k for the age but i am not sure if thats the grey dealer pumping up the price. i really prefer a datw but at this point i can live without a date.

SD at retail price BNIB is way better than a used 114060 at $8200.

[hoppyjr]

So i've been waiting for over a year to get the Seadweller 50th Anniversary with no news from any of the ADs that I put my name in their "list". I finally saw one in person and wasnt blown away by it as it seemed very similar to my DeepSea. Now i have an opportunity to pick up a pre-owned SubC ND 1yr old for $8200 mint condition. What do you guys think of the price and are Subs really impossible to get still (I am on So Cal). I checked Watchrecon and they usually sell for $8600-$9k for the age but i am not sure if thats the grey dealer pumping up the price. i really prefer a datw but at this point i can live without a date.

SD at retail price BNIB is way better than a used 114060 at $8200.

This assumes one can find a BNIB SD.

[JP Chestnut]

$8200 seems OK to me, but you need to be willing and comfortable accepting these pumped up prices. To be frank, every current price is a rip off. Sometimes I'm willing to get ripped off because I really want a particular watch and I have the cash. Sometimes I just can't do it.

Whatever you do, just do it with open eyes.

[JBZ]

In today’s market, 8,200 on a pre-owned 114060 is a decent, if not spectacular, price. But do you really want it? If not, you’re spending a lot of money on something you’re not sure about.

[Abmw]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I have some time to think about it. The watch is local to me and I know it’s history. I really wasn’t looking for one but now I feel that if I don’t get it now it may be a while before another one pops up at that price. And who knows when the ADs gonna get back to me.

[R@cerx]

As a reference, a very well known grey dealer offered me $7k cash for my 1.5 year old example a couple of months ago. I’d expect that offer to be higher right now.

These prices are crazy. I know I’d never be able to replace mine in the current market.

Agreed. I paid sub-7k new just a few years ago. Today’s pricing makes me like it more.

[dukerules]

That's a $6K watch at most in my book. Used to own one. I wouldn't pay a penny more. The current Rolex sports watch price are a joke. All that money, for that dumb case shape?

[matt.wu]

That's a $6K watch at most in my book. Used to own one. I wouldn't pay a penny more. The current Rolex sports watch price are a joke. All that money, for that dumb case shape?

This is the most aggressive post I have ever seen from Rahul.

(but I basically agree)

[nweash]

What can I sing that hasn’t already been sung.

I just grabbed two FS posts on WUS just for some perspective.

One from July 2018, and another from June 2017.

I can’t believe anyone would pay today’s prices.

[R@cerx]

That's a $6K watch at most in my book. Used to own one. I wouldn't pay a penny more. The current Rolex sports watch price are a joke. All that money, for that dumb case shape?

Yet they’re very much in demand... go figure.

[blkgsl]

I do think the recent explosion in Rolex sport watch pricing is insane.

But for the sake of fostering productive discussion amongst watch guys, I have a somewhat different perspective - for a long time, stainless Rolex watches have been underpriced. Rolex is (hypothetically, no one outside Rolex’s strategy group knows for sure) simply trying to reprice its watches to a more market appropriate level, and is using the secondary market to get the buying public familiar with where the pricing eventually will be (through slow yet steady msrp increases across all its global markets). And they can take this long view, because they don’t have shareholders demanding performance each quarter.

If we look at similar watches in the market, a fifty fathoms has a $15k msrp, 50%+ more than a submariner. Both have similar technical specifications, and the Rolex has the added benefit of one of the most respected bracelets in the industry. When it comes to the Sky Dweller, where else can we get an annual calendar GMT on bracelet for $15k msrp? The closest UNs are like $14k without GMT, and IWC’s offerings start in the high teens on strap. The Daytona is the only offering in the lineup which is probably priced correctly and artificially limited in order to achieve the flagship effect (like Porsche/Ferrari does with their limited edition cars).

[dnslater]

If we look at similar watches in the market, a fifty fathoms has a $15k msrp, 50%+ more than a submariner. Both have similar technical specifications, and the Rolex has the added benefit of one of the most respected bracelets in the industry. When it comes to the Sky Dweller, where else can we get an annual calendar GMT on bracelet for $15k msrp? The closest UNs are like $14k without GMT, and IWC’s offerings start in the high teens on strap. The Daytona is the only offering in the lineup which is probably priced correctly and artificially limited in order to achieve the flagship effect (like Porsche/Ferrari does with their limited edition cars).

Interesting perspective. Guess I always looked at a Rolex as a hard wearing sports watch and the Fifth Fathoms as a higher end luxury watch as it seems much more "premium" in it's finishing and details...dial, case polishing, movement finishing, etc. I suppose at this price point, it is all somewhat arbitrary though and Rolex has the biggest name in the business.

[Panerai7]

That's a $6K watch at most in my book. Used to own one. I wouldn't pay a penny more. The current Rolex sports watch price are a joke. All that money, for that dumb case shape?

+1 got a new one under 7K from AD and it didn’t last a year.
There’s really nothing special about it even for 7K and the case shape Just doesn’t work. The only good thing is that it’s easy to sell for same money or higher

[JBZ]

I do think the recent explosion in Rolex sport watch pricing is insane.

But for the sake of fostering productive discussion amongst watch guys, I have a somewhat different perspective - for a long time, stainless Rolex watches have been underpriced. Rolex is (hypothetically, no one outside Rolex’s strategy group knows for sure) simply trying to reprice its watches to a more market appropriate level, and is using the secondary market to get the buying public familiar with where the pricing eventually will be (through slow yet steady msrp increases across all its global markets). And they can take this long view, because they don’t have shareholders demanding performance each quarter.

If we look at similar watches in the market, a fifty fathoms has a $15k msrp, 50%+ more than a submariner. Both have similar technical specifications, and the Rolex has the added benefit of one of the most respected bracelets in the industry. When it comes to the Sky Dweller, where else can we get an annual calendar GMT on bracelet for $15k msrp? The closest UNs are like $14k without GMT, and IWC’s offerings start in the high teens on strap. The Daytona is the only offering in the lineup which is probably priced correctly and artificially limited in order to achieve the flagship effect (like Porsche/Ferrari does with their limited edition cars).

I think this makes sense. Rolex is in the enviable position of both having no shareholders and being one of the most sought after luxury brands on the planet. So they can afford to do things that other companies simply can't.

And one can argue that BP makes a better watch, but it's a lot more difficult with brands like UN (which I personally can't stand regardless of quality) and IWC. I'm sure economies of scale also comes into play. Regardless of what anyone may think of Rolex, they can probably afford to price their watches for less because they produce so many of them (as compared to a company like BP) and because they sell everything. But they can also decide to increase prices because they remain incredibly desirable. And, let's face it, the mark-up on luxury goods is already insane, even without the latest goings on, so I doubt Rolex has been losing money due to underpricing.

Plus Rolex has Tudor to fill the entry level luxury market and provide direct competition with (and even undercut) a brand like Omega.

[blkgsl]

Plus Rolex has Tudor to fill the entry level luxury market and provide direct competition with (and even undercut) a brand like Omega.

Yes! I missed this point in my original post, but it mirrors my thought as well. Since reintroducing Tudor and witnessing sales explode, Rolex has a great "entry level" sports brand to compete in the Omega/IWC/Breitling space. Hence, trying to move their flagship brand and products upmarket.

As a note here, I anticipate a similar strategy with Seiko / Grand Seiko, based on this year's new release MSRPs. I'm not sure if they will be as successful, though.

[Abmw]

I called the AD near me where I've been on the list for a year inquiring about status. Of course he says if u buy sonething feom us you will be pushed up the list. So i ask if they have the Tudor Pepsi GMT. He mentions that they are hard to get in the US because of higher allocation to Europe and Asia but more interestingly is they shifted watchmakers from Tudor to Rolex to alleviate the supply problem with Rolex. Dont know how much truth thwre is to what hes saying but I thought it was interesting if true.

[JP Chestnut]

I called the AD near me where I've been on the list for a year inquiring about status. Of course he says if u buy sonething feom us you will be pushed up the list. So i ask if they have the Tudor Pepsi GMT. He mentions that they are hard to get in the US because of higher allocation to Europe and Asia but more interestingly is they shifted watchmakers from Tudor to Rolex to alleviate the supply problem with Rolex. Dont know how much truth thwre is to what hes saying but I thought it was interesting if true.

You should have told him, "sure, I'll take a SS Daytona, Pepsi, AND the Sub".

How do these guys expect people to buy shit if they can only buy it after buying something that they can't buy? This is pure absurdity.

[JBZ]

I called the AD near me where I've been on the list for a year inquiring about status. Of course he says if u buy sonething feom us you will be pushed up the list. So i ask if they have the Tudor Pepsi GMT. He mentions that they are hard to get in the US because of higher allocation to Europe and Asia but more interestingly is they shifted watchmakers from Tudor to Rolex to alleviate the supply problem with Rolex. Dont know how much truth thwre is to what hes saying but I thought it was interesting if true.

You should have told him, "sure, I'll take a SS Daytona, Pepsi, AND the Sub".

How do these guys expect people to buy shit if they can only buy it after buying something that they can't buy? This is pure absurdity.

I'll bet the AD could lay his hands on a pink dial TT 36mm datejust pretty quickly.

[JP Chestnut]

I called the AD near me where I've been on the list for a year inquiring about status. Of course he says if u buy sonething feom us you will be pushed up the list. So i ask if they have the Tudor Pepsi GMT. He mentions that they are hard to get in the US because of higher allocation to Europe and Asia but more interestingly is they shifted watchmakers from Tudor to Rolex to alleviate the supply problem with Rolex. Dont know how much truth thwre is to what hes saying but I thought it was interesting if true.

You should have told him, "sure, I'll take a SS Daytona, Pepsi, AND the Sub".

How do these guys expect people to buy shit if they can only buy it after buying something that they can't buy? This is pure absurdity.

I'll bet the AD could lay his hands on a pink dial TT 36mm datejust pretty quickly.

That's what it comes down to - "buy our ugly shit that nobody wants and we will let you buy something basic like a SS Sub".

[hoppyjr]

I called the AD near me where I've been on the list for a year inquiring about status. Of course he says if u buy sonething feom us you will be pushed up the list. So i ask if they have the Tudor Pepsi GMT. He mentions that they are hard to get in the US because of higher allocation to Europe and Asia but more interestingly is they shifted watchmakers from Tudor to Rolex to alleviate the supply problem with Rolex. Dont know how much truth thwre is to what hes saying but I thought it was interesting if true.

You should have told him, "sure, I'll take a SS Daytona, Pepsi, AND the Sub".

How do these guys expect people to buy shit if they can only buy it after buying something that they can't buy? This is pure absurdity.

I'll bet the AD could lay his hands on a pink dial TT 36mm datejust pretty quickly.

That's what it comes down to - "buy our ugly shit that nobody wants and we will let you buy something basic like a SS Sub".

I agree. Rolex is allowing (enabling?) their AD’s to play this game, where you “move up the list” for buying a less desirable model or some other jewelry the AD sells. This is shitty behavior by the AD’s and leaves a bad taste in my mouth for Rolex in general.

I’ve been a customer at my AD for 20 years. I’ve bought countless Rolex, Panerai, etc from them. Some jewelry too. I don’t get so much as my name on any list from them anymore. Back when the market wasn’t crazy they were quick to sell to me and offered great service. The last year I don’t even get friendly service. It’s enough to push me away from Rolex altogether.

I know this: when the market slows and they want business, they’ll get none of mine.

[JP Chestnut]

I called the AD near me where I've been on the list for a year inquiring about status. Of course he says if u buy sonething feom us you will be pushed up the list. So i ask if they have the Tudor Pepsi GMT. He mentions that they are hard to get in the US because of higher allocation to Europe and Asia but more interestingly is they shifted watchmakers from Tudor to Rolex to alleviate the supply problem with Rolex. Dont know how much truth thwre is to what hes saying but I thought it was interesting if true.

You should have told him, "sure, I'll take a SS Daytona, Pepsi, AND the Sub".

How do these guys expect people to buy shit if they can only buy it after buying something that they can't buy? This is pure absurdity.

I'll bet the AD could lay his hands on a pink dial TT 36mm datejust pretty quickly.

That's what it comes down to - "buy our ugly shit that nobody wants and we will let you buy something basic like a SS Sub".

I agree. Rolex is allowing (enabling?) their AD’s to play this game, where you “move up the list” for buying a less desirable model or some other jewelry the AD sells. This is shitty behavior by the AD’s and leaves a bad taste in my mouth for Rolex in general.

I’ve been a customer at my AD for 20 years. I’ve bought countless Rolex, Panerai, etc from them. Some jewelry too. I don’t get so much as my name on any list from them anymore. Back when the market wasn’t crazy they were quick to sell to me and offered great service. The last year I don’t even get friendly service. It’s enough to push me away from Rolex altogether.

I know this: when the market slows and they want business, they’ll get none of mine.

When you combine this bundling with current prices it's just crazy. So you buy a $12,000 TT DateJust in order to get on the list for a $10,000 sub? I make a really good living but $22,000 plus 8% sales tax for two watches is a LOT of money. You can buy a brand new Honda Civic Si for that much money. That's a real car with all sorts of cool features that you couldn't even get on a luxury car a decade ago.

[Abmw]

I called the AD near me where I've been on the list for a year inquiring about status. Of course he says if u buy sonething feom us you will be pushed up the list. So i ask if they have the Tudor Pepsi GMT. He mentions that they are hard to get in the US because of higher allocation to Europe and Asia but more interestingly is they shifted watchmakers from Tudor to Rolex to alleviate the supply problem with Rolex. Dont know how much truth thwre is to what hes saying but I thought it was interesting if true.

You should have told him, "sure, I'll take a SS Daytona, Pepsi, AND the Sub".

How do these guys expect people to buy shit if they can only buy it after buying something that they can't buy? This is pure absurdity.

I'll bet the AD could lay his hands on a pink dial TT 36mm datejust pretty quickly.

That's what it comes down to - "buy our ugly shit that nobody wants and we will let you buy something basic like a SS Sub".

I agree. Rolex is allowing (enabling?) their AD’s to play this game, where you “move up the list” for buying a less desirable model or some other jewelry the AD sells. This is shitty behavior by the AD’s and leaves a bad taste in my mouth for Rolex in general.

I’ve been a customer at my AD for 20 years. I’ve bought countless Rolex, Panerai, etc from them. Some jewelry too. I don’t get so much as my name on any list from them anymore. Back when the market wasn’t crazy they were quick to sell to me and offered great service. The last year I don’t even get friendly service. It’s enough to push me away from Rolex altogether.

I know this: when the market slows and they want business, they’ll get none of mine.

When you combine this bundling with current prices it's just crazy. So you buy a $12,000 TT DateJust in order to get on the list for a $10,000 sub? I make a really good living but $22,000 plus 8% sales tax for two watches is a LOT of money. You can buy a brand new Honda Civic Si for that much money. That's a real car with all sorts of cool features that you couldn't even get on a luxury car a decade ago.

Its crazy how ADs expect you to buy extra watches for the honor of getting SS sport from them. It does really put a bad taste in my mouth. Honestly sometimes I tell myself to take the money and just invest it in stocks. I laugh everytime a sales person tells me to buy jewelry or watches and maybe I will be bumped up on the list. And its not called a waitlist list anymore. Its called an interest list now...wtf.