Is this realistic?

james80 · Post by **james80** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:50 am

Is this realistic?

NOS 40mm Explorer II with 3186 movt for almost $10K!!

If it is my nearest AD has (or at least he did until recently) a new one in stock for $6,200.00, I should run and buy it.

JP Chestnut · Post by **JP Chestnut** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:02 am

I saw that. It's a guy who saw the insane GMT2/3186 market (pretty limited production) and decided to try to create one for the much-hated Explorer 2 (offered for a decent amount of time with the 3186).

I want a new pre ceramic, and all the prices are crazy crazy crazy. $10,000 for a mint unpolished LV? $7,000 for a mint unpolished 14060M? Fuck that.

james80 · Post by **james80** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:16 am

Whats much hated? The explorer 2 or the explorer 2 with 3186?

JP Chestnut · Post by **JP Chestnut** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:19 am

james80 wrote:Whats much hated? The explorer 2 or the explorer 2 with 3186?

The Explorer 2, the previous version, has been the absolutely least popular Rolex since... forever. It's only very recently started to appreciate in value - now that everything else is overpriced.

I've always liked it, especially the white dial.

rockmastermike · Post by **rockmastermike** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:32 am

I liked my old polar one

and it wasn't even 1/3 of what that guy is asking

JP Chestnut · Post by **JP Chestnut** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:34 am

I do too, but it's a historically unloved model. Go check out some TZ posts from before they split the Rolex forum.

james80 · Post by **james80** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:59 am

I like them a lot, so much in fact that I'm torn between a 14060 or a white one (40mm) when I am ready to buy later this year (hopefully). I'm seeing them used anywhere from mid 3s and up.

smalls · Post by **smalls** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:54 am

Wish they made the new ones in 40. I'd have one.

DON · Post by **DON** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:17 am

Would take the older model over any of the new ones. Fatter hands and glossy paint just doesn't work.

DON

hoppyjr · Post by **hoppyjr** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:24 am

james80 wrote:I like them a lot, so much in fact that I'm torn between a 14060 or a white one (40mm) when I am ready to buy later this year (hopefully). I'm seeing them used anywhere from mid 3s and up.

The one to have is that 3186 IMO, but not at $10k. Since used prices are moving higher, I'd check with that AD and see if he'll let you do a layaway type deal to hold that new one he has. He may even cut you a decent deal if he doesn't know the value.

streetracer101 · Post by **streetracer101** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:50 pm

james80 wrote:Is this realistic?

NOS 40mm Explorer II with 3186 movt for almost $10K!!

If it is my nearest AD has (or at least he did until recently) a new one in stock for $6,200.00, I should run and buy it.

That seems like a good price for a NOS Exp 2.

JP Chestnut wrote:I saw that. It's a guy who saw the insane GMT2/3186 market (pretty limited production) and decided to try to create one for the much-hated Explorer 2 (offered for a decent amount of time with the 3186).

I want a new pre ceramic, and all the prices are crazy crazy crazy. $10,000 for a mint unpolished LV? $7,000 for a mint unpolished 14060M? Fuck that.

14060 prices are stupid right now. Less then 5 yrs ago I bought an unpolished, full kit 14060 for $4200. It was my first Rolex. Now you can barely by a 14060 head only for that much.

JP Chestnut · Post by **JP Chestnut** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:06 pm

streetracer101 wrote:
james80 wrote:Is this realistic?

NOS 40mm Explorer II with 3186 movt for almost $10K!!

If it is my nearest AD has (or at least he did until recently) a new one in stock for $6,200.00, I should run and buy it.
That seems like a good price for a NOS Exp 2.

JP Chestnut wrote:I saw that. It's a guy who saw the insane GMT2/3186 market (pretty limited production) and decided to try to create one for the much-hated Explorer 2 (offered for a decent amount of time with the 3186).

I want a new pre ceramic, and all the prices are crazy crazy crazy. $10,000 for a mint unpolished LV? $7,000 for a mint unpolished 14060M? Fuck that.
14060 prices are stupid right now. Less then 5 yrs ago I bought an unpolished, full kit 14060 for $4200. It was my first Rolex. Now you can barely by a 14060 head only for that much.

I passed on a new 14060m for $5400 when they discontinued it. Should have bought it.

james80 · Post by **james80** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:30 pm

streetracer101 wrote:
james80 wrote:Is this realistic?

NOS 40mm Explorer II with 3186 movt for almost $10K!!

If it is my nearest AD has (or at least he did until recently) a new one in stock for $6,200.00, I should run and buy it.
That seems like a good price for a NOS Exp 2.

Going to ask if he still has it but doubt I'd buy it to wear, at that spend I'd prefer a used subC.

If it's still there and anyone's interested let me know and I'll make it happen.

james80 · Post by **james80** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:33 pm

JP Chestnut wrote:
streetracer101 wrote:
james80 wrote:Is this realistic?

NOS 40mm Explorer II with 3186 movt for almost $10K!!

If it is my nearest AD has (or at least he did until recently) a new one in stock for $6,200.00, I should run and buy it.
That seems like a good price for a NOS Exp 2.

JP Chestnut wrote:I saw that. It's a guy who saw the insane GMT2/3186 market (pretty limited production) and decided to try to create one for the much-hated Explorer 2 (offered for a decent amount of time with the 3186).

I want a new pre ceramic, and all the prices are crazy crazy crazy. $10,000 for a mint unpolished LV? $7,000 for a mint unpolished 14060M? Fuck that.
14060 prices are stupid right now. Less then 5 yrs ago I bought an unpolished, full kit 14060 for $4200. It was my first Rolex. Now you can barely by a 14060 head only for that much.
I passed on a new 14060m for $5400 when they discontinued it. Should have bought it.

To wear or invest?

And if we're talking what could have, I should've bought a used 36mm Explorer I in 2007 when they where $2k all day long but I bought a new Carrera chrono. Oh well.

JP Chestnut · Post by **JP Chestnut** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:07 pm

Wear. Buying watches and then hiding them away hoping to profit is lame.

james80 · Post by **james80** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:37 pm

Agreed, which is why even if it's a fantastic deal I doubt I'd consider it (not that I can now anyway), I've made up my mind that I'm buying used at that price point and at $6k I'd prefer a used 42mm explorer II with the better bracelet and sel.

That said at some point I still want a 40 at around 4.

Post by **toxicavenger** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:28 pm

i had the 16570, looked great in pics, super underwhelmed by it in person

JP Chestnut · Post by **JP Chestnut** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:30 pm

The downside, for me, is the bezel. It can only be correctly refinished on a lapping machine, which are rare.

Post by **matt.wu** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:33 am

JP Chestnut wrote:The downside, for me, is the bezel. It can only be correctly refinished on a lapping machine, which are rare.

Even then, I don't know I've come across anyone who can replicate the factory finish. Even LAWW won't do it, AFAIK.

JP Chestnut · Post by **JP Chestnut** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:23 am

matt.wu wrote:
JP Chestnut wrote:The downside, for me, is the bezel. It can only be correctly refinished on a lapping machine, which are rare.
Even then, I don't know I've come across anyone who can replicate the factory finish. Even LAWW won't do it, AFAIK.

There's a guy in the UK, Rocco is his name, who has done a few (and the vintage omegas with the similar starburst bezel treatment) with a good outcome. As long as you don't get one of the ultra early models with the different (uglier) font, you can always get Rolex to replace it. At this point, I don't think I would ever consider a sporty watch without a replaceable bezel.

93 Turbo · Post by **93 Turbo** » Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:25 pm

toxicavenger wrote:i had the 16570, looked great in pics, super underwhelmed by it in person

I had a 16570 with the 3186 mvt, I bought new in 2009, ended up trading it for a PAM. A nice watch, but the 216570 for me is everything the earlier iteration wasn't. Yeah sure it's only going to appreciate in value over time, but it had shithouse lume, and I don't buy watches to be safe queens. J

If it was a 16710 GMT II with a 3186 movement, that would be a different story.

sierra11b · Post by **sierra11b** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:13 am

JP Chestnut wrote:I do too, but it's a historically unloved model. Go check out some TZ posts from before they split the Rolex forum.

The early tritium polar 16570s which have turned cream have been ridiculously priced long before the BLRO skyrocketed the 16710s, or people asked stupid prices for NOS 3186 pre-ceramics.

Finding a nice 3185 16570 is still one of the most underrated tool watch bargains on the market. Being that moving the 16710 was my biggest regret in watchdom, and the 16570 is the same watch dimensionally, I've thought about picking one up but something always keeps me from pulling the trigger, probably because I owned the 216570 for two years and loved it.

To me having the 3185 vs the 3186 makes sense. It's the same movement minus the shakes when setting. Had both the 3185 16710 and 116710... Big whoop. As for refinishing, it's a tool watch guys! Give it a quick hit on a wheel if you're comfortable in your skills, or have someone do it, then fill the numerals in cerakote. Done! I've had enough experience behind a belt grinder I would be okay in giving mine a uniform brushed look, not the sunray look lapping does, but a one-directional grit without being polished to make it look great.

Besides, for the price you can get a gently used 3185 version you can still source a NOS bezel for safe keeping and come out way ahead on any currently offered 16710.

JP Chestnut · Post by **JP Chestnut** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 4:08 am

Do you mean the cream dial? Those are an entirely different animal. In other news the blackout explorer 1 is very expensive too. That doesn't mean a NOS 36mm explorer is worth 10 grand.

sierra11b · Post by **sierra11b** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:25 am

Don't see how it's entirely different when it's the same watch. If someone is willing to spend a small fortune for an essentially bad dial that happens to look cool, then why not a premium for the latest movement in an discontinued design?

For me a 16570 w/3186 is not worth $10K either but if money were no object I'd get a stickered 16710, with or without the 3186, and pay whatever the seller wanted. I'm sure there's someone out there willing to pick-up the 16570 at that price.

JP Chestnut · Post by **JP Chestnut** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:17 am

You don't see why a super rare dial variation leading to hirer prices has nothing to do with the prices of the mundane version? OK.

A NIB 16570 w/3186 is not worth $10K because there's currently an unsold NIB 16570 w/3186 with an asking price of $6500. There's no more definite argument for how incredibly overpriced the watch under discussion is.

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