Hunting Tips for a Vintage Sub?

[marchone]

They aren't a 5513, but HQ Milton has two late '90s 16600s for sale right now for the mid 5Ks. Watches look pretty good. They also have a 14060 from 1991 listed at $3,800 (NATO strap only).

I have to admit, even though they aren't what I set out looking for, they are tempting...

What's everyone's opinions on buying a vintage piece without the bracelet? I'm kind of ambivalent about it and mainly put the authenticity and condition of the watch head 1st. That said I'm not crazy about hunting down a bracelet after the fact or adding an aftermarket one. If I ever bought a vintage watch sans bracelet I'd probably just put a leather strap or nato on it.
I guess it also depends on the watch too, some just look better on a bracelet IMO.

I don't know about you but I'd probably be happiest with the model I had my eyes set on first and try not to get distracted. To the bracelet question, 99/100 guys will say any Rolex belongs on a bracelet. I'm the sole dissident. I'd be happy with a head alone. Then I'd take my time to chase down a correct bracelet.

IMHO, 5513s and 14060/14060M models are the last Rolex divers that look best on NATO G10 straps like the descendants of the military issued watches they are.

[JP Chestnut]

They aren't a 5513, but HQ Milton has two late '90s 16600s for sale right now for the mid 5Ks. Watches look pretty good. They also have a 14060 from 1991 listed at $3,800 (NATO strap only).

I have to admit, even though they aren't what I set out looking for, they are tempting...

What's everyone's opinions on buying a vintage piece without the bracelet? I'm kind of ambivalent about it and mainly put the authenticity and condition of the watch head 1st. That said I'm not crazy about hunting down a bracelet after the fact or adding an aftermarket one. If I ever bought a vintage watch sans bracelet I'd probably just put a leather strap or nato on it.
I guess it also depends on the watch too, some just look better on a bracelet IMO.

I don't know about you but I'd probably be happiest with the model I had my eyes set on first and try not to get distracted. To the bracelet question, 99/100 guys will say any Rolex belongs on a bracelet. I'm the sole dissident. I'd be happy with a head alone. Then I'd take my time to chase down a correct bracelet.

IMHO, 5513s and 14060/14060M models are the last Rolex divers that look best on NATO G10 straps like the descendants of the military issued watches they are.

Regarding the 16600s - I don't care for either of them. They're too new to be that beat up. I semi-recently put my money where my mouth is and picked up a mint unpolished 16600, which I love.

Regarding the bracelets - I view the older Rolex bracelets only slightly above consumables such as gaskets. As a result, I'd prefer to not wear a vintage watch on a hard to find (ie expensive) vintage correct bracelet. I'd much rather fit it to a newer, cheaper, easier to replace alternative. If you're not a "complete set" collector, I don't think you should pay big money for a watch on a period correct bracelet which is almost certainly going to be as limp as Terry after a Pride parade.

[matt.wu]

Agreed that if you're "price sensitive" you should pass on the bracelet for now. Completely interchangeable, so it's easy to pick one up at a later time. Could save you $500+ on the current purchase, and buying down the line is probably only $200-500 more than you would have paid currently.

[Knome]

I don't know about you but I'd probably be happiest with the model I had my eyes set on first and try not to get distracted. To the bracelet question, 99/100 guys will say any Rolex belongs on a bracelet. I'm the sole dissident. I'd be happy with a head alone. Then I'd take my time to chase down a correct bracelet.

IMHO, 5513s and 14060/14060M models are the last Rolex divers that look best on NATO G10 straps like the descendants of the military issued watches they are.

I said I was tempted but I'm not easily swayed off my intended path
Also you just stated something I subconsciously thought but never put my finger on, I totally agree those models are the last ones to look great on natos (and even leather straps... ok drew leathers), I can't really see myself putting a modern rolex or any with glossy dials on a nato. That said, I just saw that Jacek has a 95' 2-line no-date sub 14060 (head only) listed for only $3700, condition looks pretty good as well. I swear, the whole world is against me on my quest for a vintage piece. I'm holding off for now though. I think I'd sooner try to get a new BLNR than veer off course on my vintage plans.

Regarding the 16600s - I don't care for either of them. They're too new to be that beat up. I semi-recently put my money where my mouth is and picked up a mint unpolished 16600, which I love.

Regarding the bracelets - I view the older Rolex bracelets only slightly above consumables such as gaskets. As a result, I'd prefer to not wear a vintage watch on a hard to find (ie expensive) vintage correct bracelet. I'd much rather fit it to a newer, cheaper, easier to replace alternative. If you're not a "complete set" collector, I don't think you should pay big money for a watch on a period correct bracelet which is almost certainly going to be as limp as Terry after a Pride parade.

Another great point I haven't put enough thought into before. Wearing a vintage bracelet frequently in rotation doesn't sound that good at all. I do plan to check out a few pieces in person before making a final decision, but I am pretty lax on the whole "included bracelet" or watch head only for the vintage models mentioned above. The OCD-completionist in me will still want to seek out one with a bracelet, but I guess I should be grateful I don't feel the need to find one with box and papers. I'll just be grateful for a deal on a model I want from a reputable seller.

[Knome]

dbl post, hotel wi-fi here blows.

[foodle]

I can't really see myself putting a modern rolex or any with glossy dials on a nato.

Try it, you might like it ...



I was going to sell my 114060 to fund the vintage Sub, but I might just keep the 114060 on a NATO and use the bracelet (Glidelock FTW ) on the vintage piece. Best of both worlds.

[JP Chestnut]

I can't really see myself putting a modern rolex or any with glossy dials on a nato.

Try it, you might like it ...



I was going to sell my 114060 to fund the vintage Sub, but I might just keep the 114060 on a NATO and use the bracelet (Glidelock FTW ) on the vintage piece. Best of both worlds.

I think it looks great, and that's a fat case Sub - the design I think looks worst on a strap.

[JBZ]

Jacob - I swear one of these days I'm going to post a picture of a used Rolex you actually like.

On the bracelet issue, both times I've bought Rollies without bracelets I've hunted one down. It's a major PITA not so much because of the bracelet, but because you have to make sure you get endlinks to fit. It's not impossible, but it does require some effort.

[JP Chestnut]

Jacob - I swear one of these days I'm going to post a picture of a used Rolex you actually like.

Any mint and unpolished example will do. Chamfers FTMFW.

I wish I could take a decent picture. My phone camera sucks and my Ipad isn't much better, but there's zero chance I'm going to let my wife see me taking pictures of a watch with the good camera.

[Knome]

Try it, you might like it ...



I was going to sell my 114060 to fund the vintage Sub, but I might just keep the 114060 on a NATO and use the bracelet (Glidelock FTW ) on the vintage piece. Best of both worlds.

argh... a $3700, 95' 14060 sub just became more of a quandary for me. I admit that does look pretty nice. A 2-line sub with no date does fulfill that minimalist look I'm after, it's just missing that matte dial....
Damn time-zones (not the forum), It's a little after 2am here in Shanghai and I am just heading back from a night out, so I am in no shape to be making decisions like this right now. Hey but the GMT function on my watch is working just fine. I guess I'll sleep on it. Hopefully someone buys that watch before I wake up.

[marchone]

An unpolished and recently serviced 14060M two-line would be my first choice. You get most of the vintage vibe (albeit with white gold marker surrounds) and whatever improvements made up to that point. A racheting bezel is a must for me.

But I'd guess you weighed those pros and cons.

[Knome]

I did, but at the price jacek is posting it's really messing with my well laid plans....

[marchone]

I have a friend that bought a minty 2-line 14060M for $2500 about four years ago. They ain't going down in price.

[JP Chestnut]

I have a friend that bought a minty 2-line 14060M for $2500 about four years ago. They ain't going down in price.

Nope. Last year or so, you used to be able to get a complete mint (actually good condition, not a beat watch with its edges taken off to hide wear) for around $4200 without looking too hard. Now, given equal condition a 14060M commands a price near (or exceeding) a 114060. All the pre-ceramic watches have increased dramatically.

[Knome]

http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/m ... 19+Tiffany


good god

[marchone]

Maybe they can sell the Syrian one to an ISIS commander.

[foodle]

http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/m ... 19+Tiffany
good god

Maybe I'm a heretic, but I just can't get into the crazy super rare vintage Rolex stuff. First off, outside of my price range. Second, I can't see the value for money on those things. But then again, even at the $5k price point, value for money on the watches we buy is hard to justify from most viewpoints.

Just FYI, I found this site:
http://www.vintagewatchcompany.com

which has a bunch of vintage Rolex for sale. The descriptions/pictures leave a lot to be desired, and the prices are high (UK), but it's a few more pieces to moon over. It is reportedly the place that Gordon Ramsay bought his vintage Rolex Sub, if that makes any difference.

[marchone]

That shop is in Burlington Arcade. I've been there. Tony.

[Knome]

http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/m ... 19+Tiffany
good god

Maybe I'm a heretic, but I just can't get into the crazy super rare vintage Rolex stuff. First off, outside of my price range. Second, I can't see the value for money on those things. But then again, even at the $5k price point, value for money on the watches we buy is hard to justify from most viewpoints.

Just FYI, I found this site:
http://www.vintagewatchcompany.com

which has a bunch of vintage Rolex for sale. The descriptions/pictures leave a lot to be desired, and the prices are high (UK), but it's a few more pieces to moon over. It is reportedly the place that Gordon Ramsay bought his vintage Rolex Sub, if that makes any difference.

yeah I agree when the vintage rolex stuff reaches a certain point it just becomes ridiculous and starts to have more of a trainwreck effect on me. I have to stop and look, but in no way looks fun to participate in.

The vintagewatchcompany site is pretty nice, I like how they let you search by birth-year, but their prices are pretty high up there. I probably wouldn't buy from there but any new resources are appreciated, even if it's just more eye candy while I slowly search. Speaking of which, a recent vintage pickup from Peter/gr8sw may have just prolonged this hunt a bit more. But the piece (vintage carrera) was on my short-short list of watches that I've told myself I have to buy as soon as a legit deal surfaces because I almost never see them available.

[foodle]

Speaking of which, a recent vintage pickup from Peter/gr8sw may have just prolonged this hunt a bit more. But the piece (vintage carrera) was on my short-short list of watches that I've told myself I have to buy as soon as a legit deal surfaces because I almost never see them available.

Can never go wrong with a L5100 chrono.

Trying to decide if I care about this whole birth year thing or not. Part of me want to get the newest example of whatever model I'm looking for (currently 1665 or 1680) rather than worry about the birth year. Then again, part of me wants a birth year red 1680 with a T19 domed crystal swapped in (poor man's DRSD).

[dukerules]

I agree on the birth year thing. I could hold out for one, but it seems as if Rolex shut down shop for sport models during the year of my birth. I'm thinking actually of picking up the nicest Rolex or Tudor Sub I can find in my price range, and then also a birth-year 6105.

[Knome]

With how long my search has been so far, and how long it's projected to go on now... I've relaxed on the birth year prerequisite quite a bit.

[Knome]

The last couple weeks of following prices has been kind of giving me that sinking feeling. The prices on good condition 5513s from reputable sites/dealers is kind of getting out of control. It seems like they are all in the high 7k to 9k range now. I'm mostly referring to sites like HQMilton (though HQM doesn't seem to have many 5513s lately so they are excluded from this rant).
Seems like the reputable, genuine rolex, deals are coming in at a steep premium these days.
What the heck is going on? At this price range I think I might as well try to get my hands on a BLNR first...

[JP Chestnut]

The last couple weeks of following prices has been kind of giving me that sinking feeling. The prices on good condition 5513s from reputable sites/dealers is kind of getting out of control. It seems like they are all in the high 7k to 9k range now. I'm mostly referring to sites like HQMilton (though HQM doesn't seem to have many 5513s lately so they are excluded from this rant).
Seems like the reputable, genuine rolex, deals are coming in at a steep premium these days.
What the heck is going on? At this price range I think I might as well try to get my hands on a BLNR first...

People ruin Rolex watches with great frequency due to their desire for a perfect watch year after year. As a result, the good ones are rare. Also, the USD is shit making our prices a bargain for ROW buyers. Another thing that contributes to it, would be the inability to import Rolex watches (thanks RUSA ). This combined with the exchange rate leads to fewer and fewer watches physically in the USA over time.

Keep in mind that people have been crying about how expensive Rolex watches are for a long long time. I recall people saying that the Ref 16600 was overpriced at $3,500. People have been claiming that the market will crash for just as long.

The bottom line is buy one if you want to and can afford it. As long as you don't pay too far from market, you're probably going to fine in a few years.

[Knome]

Ugh this definitely pushed up my timetable. I might have to actually get into flipping :p