Budget audiophile gear recommendations

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59yukon01
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Re: Budget audiophile gear recommendations

Post by 59yukon01 » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:07 pm

Another example of the benefit of a sub is I recently bought just a soundbar with small built in subs supposedly. This was for a bedroom we made into a media room

Was extremely disappointed and felt I had to turn the volume up, and then heard too much upper highs.

Returned it for the model that includes a separate wireless sub. Even though the soundbars were the exact same, the addition of the sub was as different as night and day in the quality of sound while watching TV and also with music.

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Bradystraps
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Re: Budget audiophile gear recommendations

Post by Bradystraps » Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:21 pm

BlueSky wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:54 pm
Bradystraps wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:56 pm
I’ve never listened to a sub for 2 channel music. If the speaker has good bass response, no need IMO.
Small speakers (and a lot of big ones, too) simply can't reproduce sound below a certain frequency, period. It's just science, namely physics. You're just not going to hear all the data, if you will, from any source you throw at it. In other words, you need a sub to reproduce all that data that a bookshelf, for example, can't.

Chris (unsub073) and I have very capable bookshelves (use mine as surrounds) and I would not use either without a sub. Two channel, especially.
Certainly understand the science behind it. I’ve just never had a need for it. Even with my new Studio 530’s, I find the bass perfectly fine and can always use the tone/loudness controls if needed.
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jeckyll
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Re: Budget audiophile gear recommendations

Post by jeckyll » Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:49 pm

Bradystraps wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:21 pm
BlueSky wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:54 pm
Bradystraps wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:56 pm
I’ve never listened to a sub for 2 channel music. If the speaker has good bass response, no need IMO.
Small speakers (and a lot of big ones, too) simply can't reproduce sound below a certain frequency, period. It's just science, namely physics. You're just not going to hear all the data, if you will, from any source you throw at it. In other words, you need a sub to reproduce all that data that a bookshelf, for example, can't.

Chris (unsub073) and I have very capable bookshelves (use mine as surrounds) and I would not use either without a sub. Two channel, especially.
Certainly understand the science behind it. I’ve just never had a need for it. Even with my new Studio 530’s, I find the bass perfectly fine and can always use the tone/loudness controls if needed.
So much is down to individual preference, the kind of music you listen to and what you enjoy (and possibly if you live in a house or condo).

A few years ago I spend time each week for a month changing my speaker setups / amp config. Different positions, different cross over points, small vs. large setting for fronts, different toe in, distance from the wall, you name it.

For some settings, you'd have to try hard to see if the difference was really noticeable, for other (like running with just the front speakers for stereo listening, with no sub) I could tell quickly.

I found that really spending a bit of time with it was the only way to tell. And, once I was used to getting down close to 20 Hz, it was hard to give up. That, plus the fact that speaker specs may say they go down to below 50 Hz, it's not where they do their best work.

Just my $0.02
If you believe the doctors, nothing is wholesome; if you believe the theologians, nothing is innocent; if you believe the military, nothing is safe.
--Lord Salisbury

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Re: Budget audiophile gear recommendations

Post by BlueSky » Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:46 am

jeckyll wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:49 pm
Bradystraps wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:21 pm
BlueSky wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:54 pm
Bradystraps wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:56 pm
I’ve never listened to a sub for 2 channel music. If the speaker has good bass response, no need IMO.
Small speakers (and a lot of big ones, too) simply can't reproduce sound below a certain frequency, period. It's just science, namely physics. You're just not going to hear all the data, if you will, from any source you throw at it. In other words, you need a sub to reproduce all that data that a bookshelf, for example, can't.

Chris (unsub073) and I have very capable bookshelves (use mine as surrounds) and I would not use either without a sub. Two channel, especially.



Certainly understand the science behind it. I’ve just never had a need for it. Even with my new Studio 530’s, I find the bass perfectly fine and can always use the tone/loudness controls if needed.
So much is down to individual preference, the kind of music you listen to and what you enjoy (and possibly if you live in a house or condo).

A few years ago I spend time each week for a month changing my speaker setups / amp config. Different positions, different cross over points, small vs. large setting for fronts, different toe in, distance from the wall, you name it.

For some settings, you'd have to try hard to see if the difference was really noticeable, for other (like running with just the front speakers for stereo listening, with no sub) I could tell quickly.

I found that really spending a bit of time with it was the only way to tell. And, once I was used to getting down close to 20 Hz, it was hard to give up. That, plus the fact that speaker specs may say they go down to below 50 Hz, it's not where they do their best work.

Just my $0.02
Good post.

For the sake of discussion, I'm referring to the use of an AVR or pre-pro as is Bjorn.

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Bradystraps
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Re: Budget audiophile gear recommendations

Post by Bradystraps » Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:17 am

For 5.1/6.1 video, I definitely use a sub. But in my 2 channel, I just never have. I may look for an inexpensive sub and give it a whirl though.
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jeckyll
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Re: Budget audiophile gear recommendations

Post by jeckyll » Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:48 pm

Bradystraps wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:17 am
For 5.1/6.1 video, I definitely use a sub. But in my 2 channel, I just never have. I may look for an inexpensive sub and give it a whirl though.
Looking forward to your impressions!
If you believe the doctors, nothing is wholesome; if you believe the theologians, nothing is innocent; if you believe the military, nothing is safe.
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Re: Budget audiophile gear recommendations

Post by unsub073 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:29 am

BlueSky wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:54 pm
Bradystraps wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:56 pm
I’ve never listened to a sub for 2 channel music. If the speaker has good bass response, no need IMO.
Small speakers (and a lot of big ones, too) simply can't reproduce sound below a certain frequency, period. It's just science, namely physics. You're just not going to hear all the data, if you will, from any source you throw at it. In other words, you need a sub to reproduce all that data that a bookshelf, for example, can't.

Chris (unsub073) and I have very capable bookshelves (use mine as surrounds) and I would not use either without a sub. Two channel, especially.
I still need to do some re arranging on my room, but can you get away with either an 8 or 10 inch sub?

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BlueSky
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Re: Budget audiophile gear recommendations

Post by BlueSky » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:00 am

Subs are such a hassle to deal with from a room design/WAF standpoint. Of course, I'm going to recommend the 10". I just hate to see, especially since you have the MAs, somebody skimp on a sub. It's just not worth it, IMO. Pretty much universal advice is to upgrade speakers first, then electronics.
You have those covered, minus the sub. There's a few, not many, options for a good small sub if the size of the box is prohibitive. After the holidays, shout back and we'll figure it out.

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BlueSky
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Re: Budget audiophile gear recommendations

Post by BlueSky » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:32 pm

Chris...didn't realize Crutchfield was selling SVS. That was one of my recs earlier. Take a look.

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Re: Budget audiophile gear recommendations

Post by unsub073 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:30 am

BlueSky wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:00 am
Subs are such a hassle to deal with from a room design/WAF standpoint. Of course, I'm going to recommend the 10". I just hate to see, especially since you have the MAs, somebody skimp on a sub. It's just not worth it, IMO. Pretty much universal advice is to upgrade speakers first, then electronics.
You have those covered, minus the sub. There's a few, not many, options for a good small sub if the size of the box is prohibitive. After the holidays, shout back and we'll figure it out.
Will do. I may end up shooting you a picture of the room and we can go from there.

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Re: Budget audiophile gear recommendations

Post by BlueSky » Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:16 pm

unsub073 wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:30 am
BlueSky wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:00 am
Subs are such a hassle to deal with from a room design/WAF standpoint. Of course, I'm going to recommend the 10". I just hate to see, especially since you have the MAs, somebody skimp on a sub. It's just not worth it, IMO. Pretty much universal advice is to upgrade speakers first, then electronics.
You have those covered, minus the sub. There's a few, not many, options for a good small sub if the size of the box is prohibitive. After the holidays, shout back and we'll figure it out.
Will do. I may end up shooting you a picture of the room and we can go from there.
Sounds great.

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Re: Budget audiophile gear recommendations

Post by Bradystraps » Fri May 15, 2020 5:03 pm

Most recent addiction... vintage receivers, again! :lol:
After building my main system to completion, I have been building my office system and now that has turned into collecting. Like watches, my wife is not entertained by this, or the FedEx/UPS/USPS deliveries weekly.

What I have found is that instead of getting lured in the monster receiver craze (Pioneer SX-1250, Marantz 2285, Sansui 9090DB, Yamaha CR-2020 etc.), the low-mid watters are where the value and best SQ is, IMHO. I have a 1969 Sony STR-6050 in pristine condition that sounds absolutely stunning. Bought it from my tech for $80. Looks great too! I also purchased a Sherwood S-7110 ($120) and HK 330C ($250) and noth also sound wonderful.
I only buy serviced/recapped units though and cannot recommend that enough, unless you want to do the work yourself.

Try em out. Late 60's through around 1978. After that, most went downhill.


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Budget audiophile gear recommendations

Post by CGSshorty » Fri May 15, 2020 8:23 pm

I have a Yamaha RX-V995 sitting in the garage. I think I paid about $1k for it in the late 90s. It’s still in great condition.
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59yukon01
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Re: Budget audiophile gear recommendations

Post by 59yukon01 » Fri May 15, 2020 9:48 pm

My first receiver was a 100 watt Sherwood bought in 78 or 79. It got trashed at a party in the early 80's, when some girl spilled her beer on it.

I currently have a Onkyo TX-DS797 THX certified I've been using for 20+ years now.

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Re: Budget audiophile gear recommendations

Post by jeckyll » Sat May 16, 2020 10:16 pm

Those old receivers are great for headphones, as the ones back then had 'proper' setups. A lot of headphone guys buy them and only use them to drive headphones only.

If I had more space I'd love to build a bit of a setup with one, but not going to happen.

I did pick up a Dragonfly Red just before things shut down everywhere and am very pleased with it, very nice clean sound. :)
If you believe the doctors, nothing is wholesome; if you believe the theologians, nothing is innocent; if you believe the military, nothing is safe.
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Re: Budget audiophile gear recommendations

Post by HapaHapa » Sun May 17, 2020 1:37 pm

Bradystraps wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 5:03 pm
Most recent addiction... vintage receivers, again! :lol:
After building my main system to completion, I have been building my office system and now that has turned into collecting. Like watches, my wife is not entertained by this, or the FedEx/UPS/USPS deliveries weekly.

What I have found is that instead of getting lured in the monster receiver craze (Pioneer SX-1250, Marantz 2285, Sansui 9090DB, Yamaha CR-2020 etc.), the low-mid watters are where the value and best SQ is, IMHO. I have a 1969 Sony STR-6050 in pristine condition that sounds absolutely stunning. Bought it from my tech for $80. Looks great too! I also purchased a Sherwood S-7110 ($120) and HK 330C ($250) and noth also sound wonderful.
I only buy serviced/recapped units though and cannot recommend that enough, unless you want to do the work yourself.

Try em out. Late 60's through around 1978. After that, most went downhill.


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I think my parents had a very similar Sherwood model. Your picture fits what I remember. Guessing they bought it late 60’s or very early 1970’s.

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