Like trucks?

[Diaboliq]

Oshkosh MATV-12

I'm paying your oshkosh and I raise you DARTZ Prombron




Hint: seats are made out of sperm whale penis leather

[Seth]

Its amazing to me that these companies produce these vehicles that are so inefficient for the terrain that they travel in.

We (Dynatrac) serviced the Turtle Expedition V. It weighed more than the freakin hoist could lift, so it took a semi jack to get it off the ground. It was so bloated, over filled, over built and over cushy to the point that it was, in my opinion, worthless.

It can't be any good in the sand or mud, as the weight makes it impossible to maintain momentum. Its worthless in the rocks and on trail, as its too big, too tippy and with too little visibility to be nimble.

So its basically a big ass RV with knobby tires. Whoopie freakin' doo.



I want an overland vehicle that's powerful, light, serviceable, and capable.

[Diaboliq]

I want an overland vehicle that's powerful, light, serviceable, and capable.

Same thing we search in a woman yet we always dream about these:




Same with these trucks

[ezcheese]

I want an overland vehicle that's powerful, light, serviceable, and capable.

Same thing we search in a woman yet we always dream about these:




Same with these trucks

[hazmatman]

Its amazing to me that these companies produce these vehicles that are so inefficient for the terrain that they travel in.

We (Dynatrac) serviced the Turtle Expedition V. It weighed more than the freakin hoist could lift, so it took a semi jack to get it off the ground. It was so bloated, over filled, over built and over cushy to the point that it was, in my opinion, worthless.

It can't be any good in the sand or mud, as the weight makes it impossible to maintain momentum. Its worthless in the rocks and on trail, as its too big, too tippy and with too little visibility to be nimble.

So its basically a big ass RV with knobby tires. Whoopie freakin' doo.



I want an overland vehicle that's powerful, light, serviceable, and capable.

Well, I guess it really all depends on what you want to do and where you want to go. Starting with a Ford F-350 SD, you will never end up with a nimble vehicle...but was that the real objective? It might work as a sag wagon or commo truck for real competition vehicles, but I'll guess having worked on these high-end demo vehicles, you know what really drives their construction...the sponsor $$$.

OH YEAH, some of these vehicles are simply show pieces, virtually useless except for maybe a very narrow mission goal...i.e. be shiny and hold up half-naked women at the SEMA show.

Some of these vehicles are great if you are simply going far out of the grid over relatively easy terrain...i.e. you do not anticipate traversing steep approach/departure angles like rock crawlers do. I am not a rock crawler, never was, doubt I will ever be unless you count the boots attached to my feet. I also do not need all the luxuries some of these demonstrators have installed...and yes, many are simply demonstration vehicles that are useless except for my SEMA comment above.

Personally I simply like penetrating areas where others do not go, spend a significant time camping out, fishing, maybe hunt, drink (all where permissible) AND be able to get out, but I am not looking for a "luxury cruiser RV" OR "trails bike" version of a 4x4.

Shiny is nice until you decide to use it & it's not built for where YOU want to go. The U.S. Army learned a lot of lessons about mine resistant vehicles in Iraq that they could have gotten from the South Africans 20-30 years ago, the USA just never really show themselves forced into such an environment until we found ourselves driving convoys - year after year - through the Iraqi landscape where you are surrounded by just enough people who don't want you driving convoys thru their countryside.

So big ass RVs with knobbies do have some place, but it's not crawling rocks (which is your bag) or trying to park at the mall...which is all some of the vehicles below are meant for. If you want to talk absolutely poser-ass useless, I know everyone here has seen these:


COME ON, GET REAL...


NOW...so that we don't all get wrapped around the axle here, those pictures above are still trucks. If you like them, that's fine too; if you don't, samey-same...it's all good. Let's just not split hairs too much on how we each see these vehicles.

This is the "off-topic fun forum" at DWC where, within bounds, we can talk about things non-watch related. So post up what you like, stay on the off-topic topic as best you can, and enjoy it. I apologize if the old Y3 Auto-Bike Forum Mod in me has come out, but I want to see threads on these forum stay in positive territory.

I own a Harley. It will never win a race on the Isle of Man, but it will get me to work.
I own a Jeep. It will never win Dakar, but it will get me to the hardware store.
I have an opinion, which will never fully match anyone else's...but it's not supposed to.

Nuf said.

[Seth]

Makes my point EXACTLY. Penetrate places that are otherwise hard to get to.

With the exception of the D90, NONE of these vehicles can do that.

[Pasquale]

This one, this is the one for me. Screw all those Ferraris and big engined Muscle cars, they got nothing on this one
One day, I will own a car like this. One day....

Defender

[Seth]

Quick. Land Rover Joke... How can you tell when a land rover is empty? It stops leaking.

[BREAKWATER]

When my ship comes in, I plan on having a 1950 Chevy with a twin supercharged big block 502 attached to a bullet proof built Tremic 6-Speed tranny, gonna look somthing like this,....


Gonna have somewhere in the neigborhood of around 800 wheel horsepower.
For now looks like i'll have to settle for a silver Toyota Tacoma....

[rationaltime]

Of course I posted the truck photos for fun. Those trucks are indeed heavy. They are also
mission capable. They may not match your mission profile, but they are also in demand.
Your tax dollars are buying these RVs with knobbies.
"Oshkosh Wins $1B MATV Deal"
http://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/06/30/matv- ... y-tuesday/

I understand about the efficiency and using a suboptimal truck for the mission. However,
if you can do without the armor for exploring and fishing, you could be far more efficient
and mobile on two wheels than four. If you assign high priority to mobility and efficiency
do you choose the transportation to match? In some locations remote from roads, air
transport is the best way to get in.

I think there is not one universal or best transportation solution. Perhaps that explains the
wide variety of vehicles manufactured. Really, even more so than for watches, we all want
to define our transportation problem and make the trade off in choosing the solution for
ourselves. We want to do that even if we lack the expertise to compare capabilities or
motivation to ignore low priority features. So, it seems vain to say. "buy that" when
that seems to meet my perceived needs but not yours. When it comes down to it most
of you do not appear to need a truck, but it is still your choice to make.

Thanks,
rationaltime

[Seth]

Did you read the MATV-12 spec sheet? Its designed to be a medium duty, overland, bomb stopper. Its built to keep soldiers alive in the sandbox while being super mobile off road... It also has the promise of being a very good truck. Its not what I was referring to.

MOGs, Steyers, Pinz... they're predominantly designed for convoy travel. Slow, straight in a line, work trucks. Purpose built to get from A to B. They don't stuff the radio truck gear in the personnel carrier, do they? Of course not. Each has its own specialty. Even the HMMV has its advantages. It will HAUL ASS in the desert unlike many other vehicles. I've driven a hummer across the desert floor... there's few vehicles like it at 60mph. Its stable, comfortable, and quite maneuverable.

In my opinion, as soon as you start trying to get a vehicle to do much more than a few things well, its going to do nothing proficiently.

I take issue with these bloated visions of self styled adventurers. Look at real arctic trucks. They're light, maneuverable and built to do ONE thing well. Desert racers? Same thing. Mud boggers? Same thing. You name the terrain and the vehicle that rules it ISN'T enormous (boats don't apply). These guys that build truck chassis'd knobby tired, 4x4 or 6x6 monsters in the name of adventure are poseurs. The terrain in many third world countries prevents them from getting much of anywhere. By way of comparison, you can find a Toyota FJ series truck from the 60s-80s or Land Rover Series I, II and D90 vehicles in every remote part of the world.

[Brian D]

[hazmatman]

<SNIP>By way of comparison, you can find a Toyota FJ series truck from the 60s-80s or Land Rover Series I, II and D90 vehicles in every remote part of the world.

Old FJs and LRs, now you're talking my language!!! That's what started this thread, rusty (except the LR) old, won't die until you out right kill them trucks. I love my old FJ40, but a 60 or 62 series would gimme some more gear room, or maybe a vintage FJ55...



After the 62 series, they just got too big, too heavy. The little woman likes the 60, so if we ever get more room, I plan to hunt one down. What she really really wants is this...


[From: http://www.montanaoverland.com/montanao ... /rides.htm ]

We just happened upon a guy selling one about 8 years ago, his uncle died and this was sitting in his garage. All original, the glass, the wooden bed strakes, everything, even the old flat head six...which started right up. We agreed on price & made a time to meet back up, we got held up in traffic, I called and left him a message. We got there 20min late...he sold it to someone else. I know that *ssh*le probably had several deals going, he was in a hurry to clean everything out, probably to get the cash before any other family members showed up to get their cut. A local painter got it and uses it as a work truck, we see it from time to time...shame; he brush painted the thing white and he'll probably run it until it dies and then scrap it.

[rationaltime]

Seth,

I do not disagree.

Did you read the MATV-12 spec sheet? Its designed to be a medium duty, overland, bomb stopper. Its built to keep soldiers alive in the sandbox while being super mobile off road... It also has the promise of being a very good truck. Its not what I was referring to.

With good military demand and 23k lb operating weight I do not expect to see these
show up on the civilianmarket.

MOGs, Steyers, Pinz... they're predominantly designed for convoy travel. Slow, straight in a line, work trucks. Purpose built to get from A to B. They don't stuff the radio truck gear in the personnel carrier, do they? Of course not. Each has its own specialty. Even the HMMV has its advantages. It will HAUL ASS in the desert unlike many other vehicles. I've driven a hummer across the desert floor... there's few vehicles like it at 60mph. Its stable, comfortable, and quite maneuverable.

I tried a UniMog over big whoops. It can negotiate rough terrain. However, you said it.
They are SLOW. I think of them as mostly agricultural or municipal tool carriers. There
is nothing wrong with that if you want to mow the ditches or blow snow. There are
collectors, but we do not see them on the roads here.

We do see HMMVs and Hummers on the roads here. I have no argument on the capabilities.
The HMMVs look authentic down to the unit markings and uniformed drivers. I would say on
duty. However, the Hummers usually look like they just went through the car wash. The load
space is seriously compromised by the drive line and suspension. They seem impractical for
my needs. I guess you can never be too safe when you are picking your kids up at school.

In my opinion, as soon as you start trying to get a vehicle to do much more than a few things well, its going to do nothing proficiently.

I take issue with these bloated visions of self styled adventurers. Look at real arctic trucks. They're light, maneuverable and built to do ONE thing well. Desert racers? Same thing. Mud boggers? Same thing. You name the terrain and the vehicle that rules it ISN'T enormous (boats don't apply). These guys that build truck chassis'd knobby tired, 4x4 or 6x6 monsters in the name of adventure are poseurs. The terrain in many third world countries prevents them from getting much of anywhere. By way of comparison, you can find a Toyota FJ series truck from the 60s-80s or Land Rover Series I, II and D90 vehicles in every remote part of the world.

A lot of people want to turn their personal vehicles into race vehicles. I'm not trying
to attack anyone here, but look at all the chipped turbo-diesels on the road blowing
soot because the drivers dump in fuel before the revs build. If they want to race
they would do better if they would lose 4000 lb.

I suspect the predominance of old LRs and FJs in the third world was mostly due to
marketing and distribution. I am going to make a guess that marketing and cost are
important factors, and if we looked today we might find a lot of newer Isuzus and
Suzukis doing the job.

Have a good day.

Thanks,
rationaltime

[Chief Big Watch]

I have to disagree with the above I do not need to lose 4000lbs from my turbo-diesel, when I can out-run out-accelerate 95% high performance "sports" cars on the road today. And the black smoke coming out of my tailpipe is not my fault, it is the fault of the driver beside me that thinks he can "punish this big truck" in his sports car.

Now, reading rest of this thread, most of you sound like a bunch of cry babies straight from middle school... Big truck can't do this... big truck can't do that..., I will take my fast nimble mud booger, rock crawler, trail runner (Jeep, Land Rover, Toyota - fill in whatever make you prefer ...) Here is what happens to your nimble "real" 4x4 in real races. You guys are just in the way. I say GO BIG or GO HOME. Here are some race videos from my home city, Wroclaw/Walbrzych Poland.

[Diaboliq]

Don't fight boys!

I went on a snow ride today with my YJ.. And took my pathfinder with me

It all started in front of my house. We went to visit the forest my father bought a month ago.

[Seth]

Ummm... Ok.... I'll see your silly tractors and raise you race cars...

[ezcheese]

I have to disagree with the above I do not need to lose 4000lbs from my turbo-diesel, when I can out-run out-accelerate 95% high performance "sports" cars on the road today. And the black smoke coming out of my tailpipe is not my fault, it is the fault of the driver beside me that thinks he can "punish this big truck" in his sports car.

Now, reading rest of this thread, most of you sound like a bunch of cry babies straight from middle school... Big truck can't do this... big truck can't do that..., I will take my fast nimble mud booger, rock crawler, trail runner (Jeep, Land Rover, Toyota - fill in whatever make you prefer ...) Here is what happens to your nimble "real" 4x4 in real races. You guys are just in the way. I say GO BIG or GO HOME. Here are some race videos from my home city, Wroclaw/Walbrzych Poland.

Awesome videos! Make sure you guys watch the last one, and watch until the end.