Global slow down...

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River Rat
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by River Rat » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:35 pm

Just used his own words the truth hurts. It’s like in the military you let the enemy have two months to attack and not do shit even though you knew about it you just did not believe in the intel. So you loose the war because of incompetence even when you had a 2 month warning. Hopefully we don’t turn into the next Italy or China. It starting to move faster in Montana now about 34 cases was 20 Friday and who would think in a rural state like mine it would start spreading if there was more testing kits and they tested more we would have more cases in Montana.
Last edited by River Rat on Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JP Chestnut
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by JP Chestnut » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:50 pm

They guy banned flights from China when everyone else in the world was calling him a racist for suggesting it.

I wish I was mentally dishonest enough to be able to push off every single fucked up thing onto one person. I’m sure it’s reassuring.

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BacoNoir
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by BacoNoir » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:57 pm

JP Chestnut wrote:They guy banned flights from China when everyone else in the world was calling him a racist for suggesting it.

I wish I was mentally dishonest enough to be able to push off every single fucked up thing onto one person. I’m sure it’s reassuring.
Doing one thing right, but then downplaying it as a hoax and not ramping up for a response sooner? He’s all about anything to close borders, but far from an effective leader.
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Selym
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by Selym » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:59 pm

JP Chestnut wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:50 pm
They guy banned flights from China when everyone else in the world was calling him a racist for suggesting it.

I wish I was mentally dishonest enough to be able to push off every single fucked up thing onto one person. I’m sure it’s reassuring.
I get the sense that government functions in loco parentis for a lot of people/organizations. :shrug:

River Rat
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by River Rat » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:03 pm

When it gets real bad due to not trying to get hospital equipment with a two month warning a poor doctor will have to make sad decisions you have a 30 year old and a 75 year old and only one respirator who lives and who dies. We could of been better prepared he knew this shit was coming but it was a hoax.

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HapaHapa
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by HapaHapa » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:23 pm

Edit - where did the i was replying to go?

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Ryeguy
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by Ryeguy » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:25 pm

River Rat wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:03 pm
When it gets real bad due to not trying to get hospital equipment with a two month warning a poor doctor will have to make sad decisions you have a 30 year old and a 75 year old and only one respirator who lives and who dies. We could of been better prepared he knew this shit was coming but it was a hoax.
Don’t worry. Your vents in Montana will likely be shipped to California just like mine in New Hampshire will likely go to Boston.

River Rat
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by River Rat » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:41 pm

The small town hospital I go to only has 6-8 beds we have one case of it in my county all ready. If they get a lot of cases they will be overwhelmed and have no place for them.

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aikiman44
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by aikiman44 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:54 pm

JP Chestnut wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:50 pm
They guy banned flights from China when everyone else in the world was calling him a racist for suggesting it.

I wish I was mentally dishonest enough to be able to push off every single fucked up thing onto one person. I’m sure it’s reassuring.
Everything mentioned is fact. Ridiculous delays in ramping up testing, acquiring masks, protective equipment etc., calling it a democratic hoax. The dismantling of the organizations and firing of the people trained to fight pandemics.
If proper attention was paid months ago significantly more lives would be saved. This is called paying attention,
not mental dishonesty.
READ, pay attention, look below the surface, not to what’s said, but to what’s been done and not done. Don’t be a blind apologist.
I’m not the enemy and I’m not the problem.
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jk103
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by jk103 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:04 pm

Wow the liberals are strong in this thread.
Think about it...Buy American

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aikiman44
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by aikiman44 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:06 pm

It’s not a liberal or conservative issue. Sorry you see it that way. Most of my friends are conservatives and are appalled at how this has been handled.
It’s about paying attention!
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59yukon01
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by 59yukon01 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:08 pm

To be clear he did NOT call the virus a hoax. That lie was debunked.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnns-jake ... irus-claim

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BBK357
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by BBK357 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:13 pm

aikiman44 wrote:
JP Chestnut wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:50 pm
They guy banned flights from China when everyone else in the world was calling him a racist for suggesting it.

I wish I was mentally dishonest enough to be able to push off every single fucked up thing onto one person. I’m sure it’s reassuring.
Everything mentioned is fact. Ridiculous delays in ramping up testing, acquiring masks, protective equipment etc., calling it a democratic hoax. The dismantling of the organizations and firing of the people trained to fight pandemics.
If proper attention was paid months ago significantly more lives would be saved. This is called paying attention,
not mental dishonesty.
READ, pay attention, look below the surface, not to what’s said, but to what’s been done and not done. Don’t be a blind apologist.
I’m not the enemy and I’m not the problem.

Lack of equipment is not the presidents fault- it’s all the hospitals that don’t stock for emergencies. They stock to save money. Fact.

I haven’t heard anyone from around here blame trump for not having equipment, and if they did, workers like me and my coworkers would call BS.
We run out of shit all the time! The weekends especially, and we have to wait for shipment on Monday afternoon. And understand, I don’t work at a small hospital system- I am in multiple large hospital systems in the capital city. All the same.

Also, i got an email that our labs are using the same swab kit for the new virus that we’ve been using for many, many years for mrsa. they swab for mrsa once a week, until discharged. It’s totally useless to swab (my type of patients) for mrsa every week, and now they are feeling it. Was always a money grab.

I do hope testing goes more mainstream. Because from what i know from around here, they are only testing hospitalized, sick patients and healthcare workers.


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fastward
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by fastward » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:29 pm

What Ben said.
Hospitals now run as lean as possible. Supply chain has been disrupted and they are burning through PPE (masks, gloves, etc) at a significantly higher rate. I read this morning that NYC hospitals are using 10x their average.

In addition, there aren’t enough hospital beds in the US to handle a spike, not even counting ICU beds. And also figure that 2/3 of the beds are currently filled.

Where do you point a finger? I guess it depends on what news station you watch.

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aikiman44
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by aikiman44 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:38 pm

Sorry if I’ve rubbed a few of the guys the wrong way. We’re all in this together.
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Henryj
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by Henryj » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:54 pm

fastward wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:29 pm
What Ben said.
Hospitals now run as lean as possible. Supply chain has been disrupted and they are burning through PPE (masks, gloves, etc) at a significantly higher rate. I read this morning that NYC hospitals are using 10x their average.

In addition, there aren’t enough hospital beds in the US to handle a spike, not even counting ICU beds. And also figure that 2/3 of the beds are currently filled.

Where do you point a finger? I guess it depends on what news station you watch.
I suppose you could point a finger at humans being human. We could have built enough hospitals with enough beds to handle this crisis years ago. We could have produced and stockpiled the respirators years ago as well. But, no rational person would pay for the construction or maintenance of facilities or materials that would stand unused for years. Similarly, who would fund and maintain a police force sized to handle massive civil unrest during a peaceful time?

In my business, we designed and planned for worst case credible accidents. Then, with the earthquake in Japan, we learned to start attempting to design for what we now call “beyond design basis” accidents. In that earthquake, the entire country of Japan jumped about 7 feet to one side. Hell of an earthquake, hell of a tsunami. Not particularly predictable.

My point is that we provide for what we believe likely, but not for much more than that. Our strength is that we can improvise, adapt, overcome. And I believe we will. We just can’t exactly turn on a dime. I’m sorta short on patience when I hear “should have done more, should have done sooner, should have done better”. For them, I have one question -“What have you, personally, done to make the response and recovery better, faster, stronger?”
Live slow, die old, leave a thoroughly used up corpse.

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Re: Global slow down...

Post by Captdave » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:14 pm

HapaHapa wrote:
bedlam wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:47 am
Henryj wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:44 am
Ya know, I’m about as small government, leave me alone, small “l” libertarian as it gets. But my understanding of this streak of independence has always been based on an assumption. That people will voluntarily work together as needed when big problems present themselves. I’m re-evaluating a few cherished beliefs these days.
I've always thought capitalism is for progress and socialism is for crises. Navigating between them to get the best outcomes for the given situation is the key. Responding to a pandemic needs good central coordination and community cooperation. I'm hoping both our countries have the flexibility to manage that.
Capitalism works just fine for crisis so long as there is philanthropy (e.g. the Gates, Arnolds and others).
And government bail outs for all the airlines that spent all their profits buying back their stock or cruise ship companies that flag their ships in countries that offer flag of convenience. Ever wonder why every cruise to Alaska has to stop in Canada before returning to the US? Because they’re all foreign flagged.


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aikiman44
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by aikiman44 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:38 pm

Look, if you follow back the story, we had significant info that the pandemic was coming months ago. Fed a bunch of BS by the Orange one about a hoax, warm weather, it’s under control, etc., this is not a generic disagreement. It’s not that we’re adaptive. It’s that this was willfully ignored to keep the Orange ones reputation/economy intact.

We would have had more testing available and protective gear in the pipeline when this was needed. People are lined up for testing right now because there isn’t enough. Regardless what you believe.

Pence in charge? He doesn’t believe in evolution. Therefore he denies biology, physics, geology, etc. You know, SCIENCE. AIDS exploded under his governorship because of his lack of understanding. When he finally allowed the needle exchange, the epidemic abated. But he had to pray on it first.

Platitudes like hospitals only have so much are sweeping this under the rug. There were purposeful delays and lack of professionals to do the job. Because they were fired.

What do I do? I performed surgery on a patient last week at the local hospital and am seeing patients in my home office on an emergency basis.
Last edited by aikiman44 on Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:53 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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HapaHapa
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by HapaHapa » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:47 pm

Captdave wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:14 pm
HapaHapa wrote:
bedlam wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:47 am
Henryj wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:44 am
Ya know, I’m about as small government, leave me alone, small “l” libertarian as it gets. But my understanding of this streak of independence has always been based on an assumption. That people will voluntarily work together as needed when big problems present themselves. I’m re-evaluating a few cherished beliefs these days.
I've always thought capitalism is for progress and socialism is for crises. Navigating between them to get the best outcomes for the given situation is the key. Responding to a pandemic needs good central coordination and community cooperation. I'm hoping both our countries have the flexibility to manage that.
Capitalism works just fine for crisis so long as there is philanthropy (e.g. the Gates, Arnolds and others).
And government bail outs for all the airlines that spent all their profits buying back their stock or cruise ship companies that flag their ships in countries that offer flag of convenience. Ever wonder why every cruise to Alaska has to stop in Canada before returning to the US? Because they’re all foreign flagged.


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Ok, I’ll rephrase more cynically. Capitalism works. Opportunism doesn’t, except for the opportunists, and there’s lots of opportunists out there.

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Re: Global slow down...

Post by four20 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:01 pm

HapaHapa wrote:
Captdave wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:14 pm
HapaHapa wrote:
bedlam wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:47 am
Henryj wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:44 am
Ya know, I’m about as small government, leave me alone, small “l” libertarian as it gets. But my understanding of this streak of independence has always been based on an assumption. That people will voluntarily work together as needed when big problems present themselves. I’m re-evaluating a few cherished beliefs these days.
I've always thought capitalism is for progress and socialism is for crises. Navigating between them to get the best outcomes for the given situation is the key. Responding to a pandemic needs good central coordination and community cooperation. I'm hoping both our countries have the flexibility to manage that.
Capitalism works just fine for crisis so long as there is philanthropy (e.g. the Gates, Arnolds and others).
And government bail outs for all the airlines that spent all their profits buying back their stock or cruise ship companies that flag their ships in countries that offer flag of convenience. Ever wonder why every cruise to Alaska has to stop in Canada before returning to the US? Because they’re all foreign flagged.


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Ok, I’ll rephrase more cynically. Capitalism works. Opportunism doesn’t, except for the opportunists, and there’s lots of opportunists out there.
And a few of them are United States senators

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hoppyjr
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by hoppyjr » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:17 pm

Remind me again, what is all this accomplishing?

Some hate Trump, some love Trump

Nobody wants to get sick.

People gonna die.

China lied, par for the course.

Lessons will be learned.

Politicians are largely assholes & idiots.

Ben wears his sisters underwear.

Terry doesn’t wear underwear.

Wu wears Underoos.

:cheers:

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BacoNoir
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by BacoNoir » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:19 pm

^^^ Well said. It accomplishes nothing. November will be the decision point for the country. Until then, let’s stop the finger pointing, practice social distancing, flatten the curve and get through this shitty time.
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dnslater
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by dnslater » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:22 pm

59yukon01 wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:08 pm
To be clear he did NOT call the virus a hoax. That lie was debunked.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnns-jake ... irus-claim
As usual, Fox and CNN both oversimplified and his words were more nuanced.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump ... ly-remark/

Hopefully if anything good comes out of this we can stop listening to the the bullshit politicians on both sides spew and come together as citizens.

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BBK357
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Re: Global slow down...

Post by BBK357 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:23 pm

aikiman44 wrote:Look, if you follow back the story, we had significant info that the pandemic was coming months ago. Fed a bunch of BS by the Orange one about a hoax, warm weather, it’s under control, etc., this is not a generic disagreement. It’s not that we’re adaptive. It’s that this was willfully ignored to keep the Orange ones reputation/economy intact.

We would have had more testing available and protective gear in the pipeline when this was needed. People are lined up for testing right now because there isn’t enough. Regardless what you believe.

Pence in charge? He doesn’t believe in evolution. Therefore he denies biology, physics, geology, etc. You know, SCIENCE. AIDS exploded under his governorship because of his lack of understanding. When he finally allowed the needle exchange, the epidemic abated. But he had to pray on it first.

Platitudes like hospitals only have so much are sweeping this under the rug. There were purposeful delays and lack of professionals to do the job. Because they were fired.

What do I do? I performed surgery on a patient last week at the local hospital and am seeing patients in my home office on an emergency basis.
I don’t totally disagree w you.
I was following the virus back when it was first being reported. When the Chinese citizens were trying to video and warn people while their government chased them down and arrested them for posting about it.
I find the lack of outrage against the Chinese government sickening. Locking people in their apartments against their will, delivering fake packages that are supposed to be food and supplies- all empty, imprisoning people that were trying to warn the world.

I was not thinking it would be this bad- I don’t think anyone over here in the USA knew that it would be this bad.
Imagine if trump would have closed international travel back then. Their would be uprisings about how extreme and how racist he is- even though we know now that it would have been the best thing to do.
I know he doesn’t help himself by twittering, but he will never be able to do anything right in the media’s eyes.


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BBK357
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Global slow down...

Post by BBK357 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:29 pm

And PS to whoever in the thread brought up how Ebola didn’t spread under Obama....
can’t compare the two viruses in any way, shape or form.
Ebola is a lot harder to transfer and it was coming from an African country that wasn’t being traveled to.

And testing ? Lol. Yeah the test for Ebola is “have you been to xxxx African nation lately? are you shitting down your pants whilst having a super high fever? Yes, well, ok, you’ll be hemorrhaging through your eye sockets within 48hr good luck.”


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