ETA Movement Sales Halted

Come on in and introduce yourself!
General watch talk.
User avatar
logan2z
IT Admin
Posts: 11739
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:08 am
Name: Andrew
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by logan2z » Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:22 am

Surprised I haven't seen this posted anywhere...

https://watchesbysjx.com/2019/12/eta-sw ... comco.html

JBZ
Mr. Tasseled Loafer
Posts: 11224
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:03 am
Name: Jeff

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by JBZ » Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:50 am

I admit to being confused about who can and cannot purchase ETA movements for some time now (outside Swatch group companies).
Image

User avatar
Aaron Shapiro
Posts: 747
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:17 pm
Name: Aaron Shapiro
Location: Nashville, TN
Contact:

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by Aaron Shapiro » Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:53 am

JBZ wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:50 am
I admit to being confused about who can and cannot purchase ETA movements for some time now (outside Swatch group companies).
+1

User avatar
aikiman44
Tiki Extraordinaire
Posts: 9430
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:50 am
Name: J

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by aikiman44 » Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:07 am

First they’re gone, then they’re back, the they’re gone...
"We'd better synchronize our watches."

User avatar
apnk
Supergluing Miscreant
Posts: 1638
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:37 pm
Name: Juan
Location: Idaho

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by apnk » Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:08 am

^^^Seems like they've talking about it for ever. Like ever since I got into this over 10 years ago

User avatar
jeckyll
Honorary Assistant Jr. Hall Monitor in Training
Posts: 11906
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:11 pm
Name: Björn

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by jeckyll » Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:32 am

The never ending story
Last edited by jeckyll on Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
We all have the same enemy. The enemy is the tyranny of the dull mind. - - Tom Robbins

User avatar
toxicavenger
President Tranny
Posts: 48071
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:25 am
Name: HeadDIK
Location: Colorado Springs

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by toxicavenger » Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:32 am

aikiman44 wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:07 am
First they’re gone, then they’re back, the they’re gone...
one good thing is that they cry wolf that they did years ago basically made a lot of companies find different solutions before they actually cut off supply. now that ETA's are not as common place their actions mean a lot less imo.

User avatar
pbj204
Posts: 2419
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:47 am
Name: Paul
Location: New York

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by pbj204 » Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:39 am

Some brands, like Sinn, have moved away from eta, but others, like Stowa, might be in trouble. I'm not sure there's a suitable alternative for the eta 6498 models or manual wind chronos.

Image

User avatar
Ryeguy
Posts: 5514
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:03 pm
Name: Chris
Location: Rye

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by Ryeguy » Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:13 am

pbj204 wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:39 am
Some brands, like Sinn, have moved away from eta, but others, like Stowa, might be in trouble. I'm not sure there's a suitable alternative for the eta 6498 models or manual wind chronos.

Image
The article does say the ban does not apply to “small” brands which have less than 250 employees.

I’d be willing to bet nearly every smaller brand we can think of (Stowa, etc.) has less than that number of employees and is therefore exempt.

User avatar
hoppyjr
HJ
Posts: 39620
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:05 am
Name: Hoppy

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by hoppyjr » Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:44 am

Ryeguy wrote:
pbj204 wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:39 am
Some brands, like Sinn, have moved away from eta, but others, like Stowa, might be in trouble. I'm not sure there's a suitable alternative for the eta 6498 models or manual wind chronos.

Image
The article does say the ban does not apply to “small” brands which have less than 250 employees.

I’d be willing to bet nearly every smaller brand we can think of (Stowa, etc.) has less than that number of employees and is therefore exempt.
I believe this is likely the case, but I also agree that larger companies like Sinn have seen the writing on the wall long ago.

It makes sense for Swatch Group to limit the ETA distribution to larger companies, as they can potentially be viewed as competitors, but Swatch obviously doesn’t feel threatened by the little guys.


User avatar
Ryeguy
Posts: 5514
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:03 pm
Name: Chris
Location: Rye

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by Ryeguy » Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:10 am

hoppyjr wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:44 am
Ryeguy wrote:
pbj204 wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:39 am
Some brands, like Sinn, have moved away from eta, but others, like Stowa, might be in trouble. I'm not sure there's a suitable alternative for the eta 6498 models or manual wind chronos.

Image
The article does say the ban does not apply to “small” brands which have less than 250 employees.

I’d be willing to bet nearly every smaller brand we can think of (Stowa, etc.) has less than that number of employees and is therefore exempt.
I believe this is likely the case, but I also agree that larger companies like Sinn have seen the writing on the wall long ago.

It makes sense for Swatch Group to limit the ETA distribution to larger companies, as they can potentially be viewed as competitors, but Swatch obviously doesn’t feel threatened by the little guys.
I’m probably a bit foggy his morning from too much Christmas cheer last night, but I’m struggling a bit to name a manufacturer who will be effected by this ban.

I doubt Stowa or Sinn are larger than 250 employees. Most of these brands outsource their manufacturing (cases, dials, hands, etc.) and are simply designers, assemblers, and distribution personnel. They are all likely less than 250 employees.

I’m wondering if there are some quasi “major” non-Swatch brands who will be impacted due to buying ETA movements to be modified into their own “calibers”.

User avatar
aikiman44
Tiki Extraordinaire
Posts: 9430
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:50 am
Name: J

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by aikiman44 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:23 am

Any idea who produces Sinn components?
"We'd better synchronize our watches."

User avatar
hoppyjr
HJ
Posts: 39620
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:05 am
Name: Hoppy

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by hoppyjr » Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:29 am

aikiman44 wrote:Any idea who produces Sinn components?
I believe they use primarily Sellita movements, with some ETA and some in-house modified calibers.

They make their own cases and I think that’s very cool.

User avatar
Ryeguy
Posts: 5514
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:03 pm
Name: Chris
Location: Rye

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by Ryeguy » Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:37 am

hoppyjr wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:29 am
aikiman44 wrote:Any idea who produces Sinn components?
I believe they use primarily Sellita movements, with some ETA and some in-house modified calibers.

They make their own cases and I think that’s very cool.
That is cool. I thought they outsourced the cases to a German case manufacturer (SUG), but I certainly could be wrong.

If they run their own machine shop, they very well could be larger than 250 employees.

User avatar
Chocodove
Posts: 8929
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:35 pm
Name: Todd
Location: NJ

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by Chocodove » Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:03 am

Ryeguy wrote:
hoppyjr wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:29 am
aikiman44 wrote:Any idea who produces Sinn components?
I believe they use primarily Sellita movements, with some ETA and some in-house modified calibers.

They make their own cases and I think that’s very cool.
That is cool. I thought they outsourced the cases to a German case manufacturer (SUG), but I certainly could be wrong.

If they run their own machine shop, they very well could be larger than 250 employees.
Lothar Schmidt, along with Fricker and another individual, founded SUG a few years after he bought Sinn. I’d be curious to know if they are a wholly owned subsidiary of Sinn that supplies cases to them and others, or act as their own entity. Interesting how that might factor into the “250 or less” clause.
- Todd

AtomicTom
Nuclear Personality!!!!
Posts: 13695
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:59 am
Name: Tom

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by AtomicTom » Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:13 am

aikiman44 wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:07 am
First they’re gone, then they’re back, the they’re gone...

Was thinking the same exact thing J. :grin: ..Appreciate the news Andrew. ..Thank you ! :thumbsup:

User avatar
hoppyjr
HJ
Posts: 39620
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:05 am
Name: Hoppy

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by hoppyjr » Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:21 am

Ryeguy wrote:
hoppyjr wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:29 am
aikiman44 wrote:Any idea who produces Sinn components?
I believe they use primarily Sellita movements, with some ETA and some in-house modified calibers.

They make their own cases and I think that’s very cool.
That is cool. I thought they outsourced the cases to a German case manufacturer (SUG), but I certainly could be wrong.

If they run their own machine shop, they very well could be larger than 250 employees.
You are correct, SUG is the case maker, but since it was founded by the same guy I consider it essentially in-house.

User avatar
logan2z
IT Admin
Posts: 11739
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:08 am
Name: Andrew
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by logan2z » Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:22 am

Ryeguy wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:10 am
hoppyjr wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:44 am
Ryeguy wrote:
pbj204 wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:39 am
Some brands, like Sinn, have moved away from eta, but others, like Stowa, might be in trouble. I'm not sure there's a suitable alternative for the eta 6498 models or manual wind chronos.

Image
The article does say the ban does not apply to “small” brands which have less than 250 employees.

I’d be willing to bet nearly every smaller brand we can think of (Stowa, etc.) has less than that number of employees and is therefore exempt.
I believe this is likely the case, but I also agree that larger companies like Sinn have seen the writing on the wall long ago.

It makes sense for Swatch Group to limit the ETA distribution to larger companies, as they can potentially be viewed as competitors, but Swatch obviously doesn’t feel threatened by the little guys.
I’m wondering if there are some quasi “major” non-Swatch brands who will be impacted due to buying ETA movements to be modified into their own “calibers”.
IWC comes to mind as they use the 7750 as a base in some of their chronographs. I'm sure there are other Richemont brands in the same boat.

User avatar
Chocodove
Posts: 8929
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:35 pm
Name: Todd
Location: NJ

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by Chocodove » Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:23 am

hoppyjr wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:21 am
Ryeguy wrote:
hoppyjr wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:29 am
aikiman44 wrote:Any idea who produces Sinn components?
I believe they use primarily Sellita movements, with some ETA and some in-house modified calibers.

They make their own cases and I think that’s very cool.
That is cool. I thought they outsourced the cases to a German case manufacturer (SUG), but I certainly could be wrong.

If they run their own machine shop, they very well could be larger than 250 employees.
You are correct, SUG is the case maker, but since it was founded by the same guy I consider it essentially in-house.
Me too :thumbsup:
- Todd

User avatar
pbj204
Posts: 2419
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:47 am
Name: Paul
Location: New York

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by pbj204 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:14 pm

Ryeguy wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:13 am
pbj204 wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:39 am
Some brands, like Sinn, have moved away from eta, but others, like Stowa, might be in trouble. I'm not sure there's a suitable alternative for the eta 6498 models or manual wind chronos.

Image
The article does say the ban does not apply to “small” brands which have less than 250 employees.

I’d be willing to bet nearly every smaller brand we can think of (Stowa, etc.) has less than that number of employees and is therefore exempt.
But there's an economies of scale issue. If they dont have large scale purchases, it might not be economical for them to make any eta movements. It might be cheaper to just shut down production. Sure they're allowed to sell to companies with below 250 employees, but they may choose not to.

From the article -

"And as a result, ETA foresees it won’t be able to sell any movements next year."

User avatar
Cabaiguan
Posts: 367
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:10 am
Name: Raf

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by Cabaiguan » Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:18 pm

Too much money to be made by Swatch here. They may cut off immediate competitors but I’m guessing smaller brands will still be able to buy ebauches.
"A ship of war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell

User avatar
abuemily
Posts: 901
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:08 am
Name: Michael
Location: God's Country

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by abuemily » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:13 pm

Cabaiguan wrote:Too much money to be made by Swatch here. They may cut off immediate competitors but I’m guessing smaller brands will still be able to buy ebauches.
If you read the article you’ll see that Swatch wants to continue selling the movements, it’s essentially the Swiss government limiting the sales as an anti-monopoly action. Swatch’s position is now 180 degrees from where it was 10 years ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
rockmastermike
Feedback Virtuoso
Posts: 20503
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 5:13 pm
Name: WDE

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by rockmastermike » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:23 pm

Re: Sinn......if they are below the 250 employee threshold then why would they use SW and not keep using ETA?

User avatar
hoppyjr
HJ
Posts: 39620
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:05 am
Name: Hoppy

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by hoppyjr » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:38 pm

rockmastermike wrote:Re: Sinn......if they are below the 250 employee threshold then why would they use SW and not keep using ETA?
I think they began transitioning back when the word was out that Swatch would stop supplying ETA “period”. That obviously evolved, but Sinn at least appeared to be moving quickly so not to disrupt their own business. I’m just assuming, but it seems reasonable.

User avatar
jlswatch
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:32 am
Name: John Schneider

Re: ETA Movement Sales Halted

Post by jlswatch » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:51 pm

I would guess a lot of the smaller brands that use Eta have less then 250 employees. This is a weird turn of events and surely will be overturned as it doesn't make sense.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jbw, mellonb1 and 928 guests