Buyer or Seller?

[namor]

Looking for objective opinions - always a risky thing on DWC I know....

A $1400 watch is sold. Buyer says ship it, I won’t be home but post office will hold it for me. Seller ships it USPS Priority, tracking says it was delivered and left on porch. A week later buyer comes home and tells seller nothing is at his home. He says he will check with post office too.

If it’s lost/stolen, who is responsible for the loss? Only insured for the minimal priority $50 btw.

Opinions?

[hoppyjr]

A seller should have insured for full value, signature required. This is basic seller stuff. The exception is if the buyer specifically requests otherwise in writing.

If I’m that buyer I’m making a PayPal claim.

If you’re one of the parties I hope you’re the buyer.

[toxicavenger]

If buyer does not say to insure it and they say to delivery and it comes up missing it is on the buyer imo.

[Jeep99dad]

I’m with Hoppy. Seller should have insured especially with him saying that he wouldn’t be home. And even better add signature required. But if he says the PO will hold it, he should have had the PO actually hold his mail which he apparently didn’t do. Seller could also have held shipping until the buyer’s return home.

[BacoNoir]

I won’t ship if they won’t be there to accept it and I always ship insured. It’s the sellers responsibility to ensure it arrives and arrives undamaged.

[Mr_Pacman]

I hope you are the buyer on this deal. It's the sellers responsibility to make sure the watch arrives to it's destination with signature required and full insurance. Paypal will almost definitely side with the buyer on this deal.

[matt.wu]

Agree with Hop. Seller, unless explicitly requested otherwise by the buyer.

I always ship insured, sig required unless the amount is such that I feel fine covering out of pocket.

[HapaHapa]

Need to insure that kind of value, and I’ve learned the hard way that USPS can’t be trusted when it comes to holding packages. I’d say at least a quarter will end up delivered, unless all mail is being held. I think I’ve also had USPS boxes delivered when I’ve had mail on vacation hold. I don’t think I would trust USPS to hold a package if the buyer isn’t going to there to collect the package if it ends up on the porch.

[aztecknight]

It should be on the buyer, but it's irrelevant, seller will get stuck with the loss. That's why I like to control my iny destiny and but insurance and signature confirmation unless I'm willing to take a loss on the watch. The extra 10-15 dollars or less with just signature required is worth it in almost all cases.

[deepcdvr]

If a buyer told me no insurance then it’s on him, if he doesn’t, I would check as the seller before shipping.

If he told me don’t sweat it, I wouldn’t fork over the $$ and I would tell the buyer to pack sand.

[ChuckW]

Anything I sell that has value in hundreds of dollars or more, the default method is signature confirmation. Some buyers find that inconvenient and I will send without it as long as it's understood that I'll take no responsibility for anything that goes missing, but tracks as delivered.

In the scenario namor mentions, the Post Office certainly would've held the package for several weeks if a signature was required and no one was there to sign for it.

[JBZ]

Agree with the majority - it's a tough situation, but it's on the seller.

I always require a signature, and I always ship insured unless it's a value I can afford to lose. The insurance is for my protection. I'd insure even if the buyer said not to or that they didn't care. They don't care until the package is lost, at which point they conveniently forget they told me not to bother with insurance and demand a refund.

[TSD]

I’d treat it like any other commercial transaction. Unless you have it in writing that the risk of loss is on the buyer once it ships, be prepared and insure against any shenanigans.

[namor]

I appreciate all of the thoughtful replies.

I've been on both sides of this situation. My experience (twice) with the USPS is that once they say the package was delivered, they will absolutely refuse to pay insurance if it doesn't reach the buyers hands. On a third lost package occasion, they claimed the contents (a watch) was "jewelry" which is excluded from insurability, so claim denied.

The sticking point in the transaction above is that the seller feels his responsibility was to get it delivered, and the buyer feels it should have been insured in case of theft. Neither one discussed insurance or responsibility before the buyer said "ship it and the PO will hold it for me" - thus the seeking of uninvolved opinions as to how to resolve it fairly.

[hoppyjr]

The post office will deny the claim if they find out it’s a watch, as jewelry is clearly excluded.

I only use usps for those watches that I have on my personal articles policy, as my carrier advised they are covered if shipped. For watches I don’t have insured on my policy use Parcel Pro.

FedEx and UPS also exclude jewelry, so you have to use a specific program like Parcel Pro unless you have a personal articles policy.

Pro Tip: never ship watches without proper coverage unless you are comfortable taking the loss financially.

[Jeep99dad]

I appreciate all of the thoughtful replies.

I've been on both sides of this situation. My experience (twice) with the USPS is that once they say the package was delivered, they will absolutely refuse to pay insurance if it doesn't reach the buyers hands. On a third lost package occasion, they claimed the contents (a watch) was "jewelry" which is excluded from insurability, so claim denied.

The sticking point in the transaction above is that the seller feels his responsibility was to get it delivered, and the buyer feels it should have been insured in case of theft. Neither one discussed insurance or responsibility before the buyer said "ship it and the PO will hold it for me" - thus the seeking of uninvolved opinions as to how to resolve it fairly.

For international mail, USPS clearly states in their rules Watches aren’t insured yet they’ll take your money and let you buy insurance I use FedExd for international

I always insure whether discussed or not.

[JBZ]

I appreciate all of the thoughtful replies.

I've been on both sides of this situation. My experience (twice) with the USPS is that once they say the package was delivered, they will absolutely refuse to pay insurance if it doesn't reach the buyers hands. On a third lost package occasion, they claimed the contents (a watch) was "jewelry" which is excluded from insurability, so claim denied.

The sticking point in the transaction above is that the seller feels his responsibility was to get it delivered, and the buyer feels it should have been insured in case of theft. Neither one discussed insurance or responsibility before the buyer said "ship it and the PO will hold it for me" - thus the seeking of uninvolved opinions as to how to resolve it fairly.

For international mail, USPS clearly states in their rules Watches aren’t insured yet they’ll take your money and let you buy insurance I use FedExd for international

I always insure whether discussed or not.

The one thing you do get when you purchase insurance from USPS over a certain dollar amount is an automatic signature requirement. So, even if an insurance claim would be denied, you do get added peace of mind that USPS won't (or shouldn't) just leave the package on someone's front stoop. My experience has been that USPS eventually comes through on packages that remain in its possession but, of course, it's better to have valid insurance.

[ChuckW]

I appreciate all of the thoughtful replies.

I've been on both sides of this situation. My experience (twice) with the USPS is that once they say the package was delivered, they will absolutely refuse to pay insurance if it doesn't reach the buyers hands. On a third lost package occasion, they claimed the contents (a watch) was "jewelry" which is excluded from insurability, so claim denied.

The sticking point in the transaction above is that the seller feels his responsibility was to get it delivered, and the buyer feels it should have been insured in case of theft. Neither one discussed insurance or responsibility before the buyer said "ship it and the PO will hold it for me" - thus the seeking of uninvolved opinions as to how to resolve it fairly.

For international mail, USPS clearly states in their rules Watches aren’t insured yet they’ll take your money and let you buy insurance I use FedExd for international

I always insure whether discussed or not.

The one thing you do get when you purchase insurance from USPS over a certain dollar amount is an automatic signature requirement. So, even if an insurance claim would be denied, you do get added peace of mind that USPS won't (or shouldn't) just leave the package on someone's front stoop. My experience has been that USPS eventually comes through on packages that remain in its possession but, of course, it's better to have valid insurance.

Signature confirmation w/o insurance is $3.05.

[hoppyjr]

I appreciate all of the thoughtful replies.

I've been on both sides of this situation. My experience (twice) with the USPS is that once they say the package was delivered, they will absolutely refuse to pay insurance if it doesn't reach the buyers hands. On a third lost package occasion, they claimed the contents (a watch) was "jewelry" which is excluded from insurability, so claim denied.

The sticking point in the transaction above is that the seller feels his responsibility was to get it delivered, and the buyer feels it should have been insured in case of theft. Neither one discussed insurance or responsibility before the buyer said "ship it and the PO will hold it for me" - thus the seeking of uninvolved opinions as to how to resolve it fairly.

For international mail, USPS clearly states in their rules Watches aren’t insured yet they’ll take your money and let you buy insurance I use FedExd for international

I always insure whether discussed or not.

FedEx has a limit for jewelry & watches, I believe $500. They will deny anything over that amount.

[5661nicholas]

This is a tricky one. First off, as stated, all items of this value NEED to be insured. Unfortunately, since the package was delivered, USPS would do nothing for you anyway, so insurance is a mute point. I know this probably isn't the popular answer. But really the loss should be shared by both parties. This is not a reasonable world we live in though. I'd be curious what PayPals stance would be since the package was delivered, my guess is it is on the buyer at that point.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[abuemily]

I appreciate all of the thoughtful replies.

I've been on both sides of this situation. My experience (twice) with the USPS is that once they say the package was delivered, they will absolutely refuse to pay insurance if it doesn't reach the buyers hands. On a third lost package occasion, they claimed the contents (a watch) was "jewelry" which is excluded from insurability, so claim denied.

The sticking point in the transaction above is that the seller feels his responsibility was to get it delivered, and the buyer feels it should have been insured in case of theft. Neither one discussed insurance or responsibility before the buyer said "ship it and the PO will hold it for me" - thus the seeking of uninvolved opinions as to how to resolve it fairly.

For international mail, USPS clearly states in their rules Watches aren’t insured yet they’ll take your money and let you buy insurance I use FedExd for international

I always insure whether discussed or not.

The one thing you do get when you purchase insurance from USPS over a certain dollar amount is an automatic signature requirement. So, even if an insurance claim would be denied, you do get added peace of mind that USPS won't (or shouldn't) just leave the package on someone's front stoop. My experience has been that USPS eventually comes through on packages that remain in its possession but, of course, it's better to have valid insurance.

I’ve had 2 watches, each over 2k in value and requiring signature confirmation, delivered to my home in the past 6 months and left in my mailbox. Both times tracking indicated that I had signed for them (in one case misspelling my name). I wasn’t home in either case—was out of the country one time—and never signed for them. So, little security or assurance there.

[JBZ]

I appreciate all of the thoughtful replies.

I've been on both sides of this situation. My experience (twice) with the USPS is that once they say the package was delivered, they will absolutely refuse to pay insurance if it doesn't reach the buyers hands. On a third lost package occasion, they claimed the contents (a watch) was "jewelry" which is excluded from insurability, so claim denied.

The sticking point in the transaction above is that the seller feels his responsibility was to get it delivered, and the buyer feels it should have been insured in case of theft. Neither one discussed insurance or responsibility before the buyer said "ship it and the PO will hold it for me" - thus the seeking of uninvolved opinions as to how to resolve it fairly.

For international mail, USPS clearly states in their rules Watches aren’t insured yet they’ll take your money and let you buy insurance I use FedExd for international

I always insure whether discussed or not.

The one thing you do get when you purchase insurance from USPS over a certain dollar amount is an automatic signature requirement. So, even if an insurance claim would be denied, you do get added peace of mind that USPS won't (or shouldn't) just leave the package on someone's front stoop. My experience has been that USPS eventually comes through on packages that remain in its possession but, of course, it's better to have valid insurance.

Signature confirmation w/o insurance is $3.05.

Good point.

[JBZ]

I appreciate all of the thoughtful replies.

I've been on both sides of this situation. My experience (twice) with the USPS is that once they say the package was delivered, they will absolutely refuse to pay insurance if it doesn't reach the buyers hands. On a third lost package occasion, they claimed the contents (a watch) was "jewelry" which is excluded from insurability, so claim denied.

The sticking point in the transaction above is that the seller feels his responsibility was to get it delivered, and the buyer feels it should have been insured in case of theft. Neither one discussed insurance or responsibility before the buyer said "ship it and the PO will hold it for me" - thus the seeking of uninvolved opinions as to how to resolve it fairly.

For international mail, USPS clearly states in their rules Watches aren’t insured yet they’ll take your money and let you buy insurance I use FedExd for international

I always insure whether discussed or not.

The one thing you do get when you purchase insurance from USPS over a certain dollar amount is an automatic signature requirement. So, even if an insurance claim would be denied, you do get added peace of mind that USPS won't (or shouldn't) just leave the package on someone's front stoop. My experience has been that USPS eventually comes through on packages that remain in its possession but, of course, it's better to have valid insurance.

I’ve had 2 watches, each over 2k in value and requiring signature confirmation, delivered to my home in the past 6 months and left in my mailbox. Both times tracking indicated that I had signed for them (in one case misspelling my name). I wasn’t home in either case—was out of the country one time—and never signed for them. So, little security or assurance there.

There's clearly a difference between what USPS should do and what they actually do.

[Captdave]

I appreciate all of the thoughtful replies.

I've been on both sides of this situation. My experience (twice) with the USPS is that once they say the package was delivered, they will absolutely refuse to pay insurance if it doesn't reach the buyers hands. On a third lost package occasion, they claimed the contents (a watch) was "jewelry" which is excluded from insurability, so claim denied.

The sticking point in the transaction above is that the seller feels his responsibility was to get it delivered, and the buyer feels it should have been insured in case of theft. Neither one discussed insurance or responsibility before the buyer said "ship it and the PO will hold it for me" - thus the seeking of uninvolved opinions as to how to resolve it fairly.

For international mail, USPS clearly states in their rules Watches aren’t insured yet they’ll take your money and let you buy insurance I use FedExd for international

I always insure whether discussed or not.

The one thing you do get when you purchase insurance from USPS over a certain dollar amount is an automatic signature requirement. So, even if an insurance claim would be denied, you do get added peace of mind that USPS won't (or shouldn't) just leave the package on someone's front stoop. My experience has been that USPS eventually comes through on packages that remain in its possession but, of course, it's better to have valid insurance.

I’ve had 2 watches, each over 2k in value and requiring signature confirmation, delivered to my home in the past 6 months and left in my mailbox. Both times tracking indicated that I had signed for them (in one case misspelling my name). I wasn’t home in either case—was out of the country one time—and never signed for them. So, little security or assurance there.

There's clearly a difference between what USPS should do and what they actually do.

I had USPS “deliver” two packages into my garbage can at the end of my drive rather than come through my gate, which they have a code for. They also didn’t put anything in my mail box stating that I could pick up the packages at the local PO. One of the packages was a limited edition print. I flat out don’t trust USPS to do anything the rite way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gwells]

fedex and UPS pull the same shenanigans sometimes. i own a laser cutter that the company has used both services to deliver. it's a very large, 80# box, value from $2500-6000, depending on which version, signature required. and more than a few people have had fedex/ups leave the box in their drive way or on their porch and fake signatures. a few of the users have busted the drivers because they have security videos of them just dropping the boxes and leaving.