impressive digital sleuthing around ginault drama from WUS

[dinexus]

I haven't really been following all the WUS Ginault drama from the last 18 months or so, but this just hit Reddit this morning, and I'll be damned if this isn't some pretty impressive sleuthing and persistence on part of the OP:

https://deepdweller.home.blog/2019/07/0 ... egal-past/

Took me the better part of a full hour to get through it all. Wild stuff.

[matt.wu]

I can gather the conclusion based on the first 30 seconds of reading, and I have to say... is this really a surprise to anyone? I think most people assumed they DEFINITELY made (or currently make) fake Rolexes also.

[dinexus]

I can gather the conclusion based on the first 30 seconds of reading, and I have to say... is this really a surprise to anyone? I think most people assumed they DEFINITELY made (or currently make) fake Rolexes also.

Yeah, it seemed like that theme emerged pretty quickly last time I remember hearing about this. Not surprised about the outcome, just the amount of effort to both obfuscate and incriminate here.

[JP Chestnut]

Ginault makes, or made, fakes? I didn't realize that anyone (besides Ginault) disputed that.

[hoppyjr]

Not surprised.

[Ryeguy]

The stuff I found most interesting was at the end. I don't there was any surprise that "TC" went quasi legit and started making homages.

It is the incorporated business in Wyoming that includes Chris Vail and Bo's name that I found curious and potentially fraudulent.

[rockmastermike]

no dog in this (except if I ever get a seaforth, I'd get the Ginault bracelet) and found this [art of the story interesting:

"With these legal documents it appears that Tsung Chi is business partners with a WatchUSeek administrator – CMSgt. Bo, and Chris “Doc” Vail of NTH.

The question is, why is Tsung Chi hiding behind an alias – signing the Articles of Incorporation with his email but under the name Chris TC Vail?

Are they’re trying to hide this?

Is this also the reason why CMSgt. Bo has been actively defending “Ginault” from being linked to “Thomas Caddell” on watchuseek.com?

I don’t know. But what I do know is that we see from legal documents that CMSgt. Bo and Chris Vail are both undisclosed business partners of Tsung Chi – the same Tsung Chi behind Ginault"

[Ryeguy]

"Doc" V. is vehemently denying any association over on WUS. Bo is silent.

[dinexus]

Saving you dudes a long scroll to the bottom of the article – Vail's response:

This is Chris Vail, the real Chris Vail, docvail on the forums.

I have nothing to do with any of this. I have not signed any articles of incorporation associated with any business related to Ginault, TC, or any other business mentioned in this article. My name was used without my knowledge or consent.

The addresses used for me – that is my old home address, and my old PO Box. Those addresses can be found by anyone determined enough to do their research into me any my business activities. My home address was listed on my own business incorporation documents, which are public records. My PO Box was listed on my website, and in all the emails we sent out while I used that PO address.

While I’m happy to see someone has done the work to look into another brands claims, if they are fraudulent, I would very much appreciate it if this article was edited to say that the person or people behind these businesses used my name fraudulently.

Thank you.

[demer03]

Lol. All that and it’s just what people said in the beginning.

[matt.wu]

Saving you dudes a long scroll to the bottom of the article – Vail's response:

This is Chris Vail, the real Chris Vail, docvail on the forums.

I have nothing to do with any of this. I have not signed any articles of incorporation associated with any business related to Ginault, TC, or any other business mentioned in this article. My name was used without my knowledge or consent.

The addresses used for me – that is my old home address, and my old PO Box. Those addresses can be found by anyone determined enough to do their research into me any my business activities. My home address was listed on my own business incorporation documents, which are public records. My PO Box was listed on my website, and in all the emails we sent out while I used that PO address.

While I’m happy to see someone has done the work to look into another brands claims, if they are fraudulent, I would very much appreciate it if this article was edited to say that the person or people behind these businesses used my name fraudulently.

Thank you.

Interesting! I'll definitely need to read the full thing to get the context on all this. Not surprised about Bo....

[jlswatch]

This is interesting not sure what to believe, faking the cmsgtbo and docvail stuff would be easy, not sure why the author would fabricate it and what he gains from said fabrication. Its a lot on data and assumptions and conjectures to sift through. According to vail Ginault is no longer a forum sponsor. I assume this is big drama on wus and will not die anytime soon. With most wus residents on multiple forums not sure where the truth will ferret itself out. I don't know what to think is true or false the only part that's not surprising is Ginault being tied to replicas.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[TSD]

no dog in this (except if I ever get a seaforth, I'd get the Ginault bracelet)

It’s a great Oyster-style SEL bracelet and clasp for the Seaforth (also seemed to fit all my 5 Digits). Get one before they’re gone.

[logan2z]

Unfortunately, outside of the mainstream brands, the watch world has become full of hucksters, shysters and other low-lives who use lies and shady business dealings to try and make a buck - and end up casting a pall over the entire hobby in the process. For a pastime that is supposed to be fun, it certainly seems to have more than its fair share of drama. It's a real turn-off.

[Ryeguy]

Unfortunately, outside of the mainstream brands, the watch world has become full of hucksters, shysters and other low-lives who use lies and shady business dealings to try and make a buck - and end up casting a pall over the entire hobby in the process. For a pastime that is supposed to be fun, it certainly seems to have more than its fair share of drama. It's a real turn-off.

Amen.

[JBZ]

I don't know how everyone keeps all the micro brands straight to begin with. A new one seems to pop up every day (just based on Atomic Tom's postings). I'm sure stuff like this makes it difficult for legit micro businesses.

[mikefromli]

no dog in this (except if I ever get a seaforth, I'd get the Ginault bracelet) and found this [art of the story interesting:

"With these legal documents it appears that Tsung Chi is business partners with a WatchUSeek administrator – CMSgt. Bo, and Chris “Doc” Vail of NTH.

The question is, why is Tsung Chi hiding behind an alias – signing the Articles of Incorporation with his email but under the name Chris TC Vail?

Are they’re trying to hide this?

Is this also the reason why CMSgt. Bo has been actively defending “Ginault” from being linked to “Thomas Caddell” on watchuseek.com?

I don’t know. But what I do know is that we see from legal documents that CMSgt. Bo and Chris Vail are both undisclosed business partners of Tsung Chi – the same Tsung Chi behind Ginault"

Chris Doc Vail is denying it heavily and in the past has shaded ginault his biz practices are the exact opposite extremely transparent I would believe him there that he as Absolutley no involvement beck who used forum handles in Inc. Papers

[dinexus]

Unfortunately, outside of the mainstream brands, the watch world has become full of hucksters, shysters and other low-lives who use lies and shady business dealings to try and make a buck - and end up casting a pall over the entire hobby in the process. For a pastime that is supposed to be fun, it certainly seems to have more than its fair share of drama. It's a real turn-off.

Bullseye.

[toxicavenger]

I know a rubber strap manufacture that wanted to make custom rubber straps for Subs. He had to donate a Sub case to the manufacturer. He used a Ginault case for that since me measured it and it was a 1:1 copy.

[JP Chestnut]

Has CUMstain Bo commented? I have no idea why a faker would want to fraudulently incorporate with Bo.

[JBZ]

The investigator is the same guy who uncovered another fraudulent seller on TRF. Links to both threads:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=684347

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=680327

[toxicavenger]

docvail docvail is online now
Member

Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN
Before this gets out of hand, my assumption is that the links to the article were removed because the article mentions a forum moderator.

I have no issue with that. I'd do the same.

I assume all posts quoting the post with the links would likewise be removed. Again, that makes sense.

It also seems the blogger's been banned from WUS. I honestly haven't even had enough time to read the article in full, to know if that was in response to something said about WUS in the article, or just because it mentions a forum moderator, so I can't say if that was a measured response or not.

My earlier post didn't quote the post with the link, as far as I can remember. I'm pretty sure I quoted a later post by the blog author.

This is why I don't understand why my post was removed. I don't know what rule it violated, and it doesn't seem to fall under the heading of doing the right thing for the forum and the moderator mentioned.

I don't have any connection to the moderator named, other than meeting him once or twice. We're connected on FB, but that's all. I haven't been a forum sponsor in years. I just run my business, no secret connections or anything like that.

I can't imagine the forum's ownership would be involved in some sort of fraud, nor can I understand why they'd try to cover it up. Likewise, I'd be shocked to learn anyone on the admin or mod team was involved. I don't think it's fair or even reasonable to jump to that conclusion.

My best guess is someone is acting swiftly in defense of the forum and the moderator named, and some posts got deleted like collateral damage.

My only hope is that I can at least defend my own name, anywhere this is being discussed, without being censored unjustly or banned.


Tapatalk is all natural. Wash in cold water and tumble dry on low heat. Some talk shrinking may occur.

[toxicavenger]

Has CUMstain Bo commented? I have no idea why a faker would want to fraudulently incorporate with Bo.

I think the guy who wrote the article tied Bo with being a mod on a replica forum if I am not mistaken.

[Erratic101]

Has CUMstain Bo commented? I have no idea why a faker would want to fraudulently incorporate with Bo.

I think the guy who wrote the article tied Bo with being a mod on a replica forum if I am not mistaken.

I thought he was tying him into a business partner with the TC guy making replicas. Said they had a business in Wyoming and it was signed with Bo Vail and TC

[toxicavenger]

Has CUMstain Bo commented? I have no idea why a faker would want to fraudulently incorporate with Bo.

I think the guy who wrote the article tied Bo with being a mod on a replica forum if I am not mistaken.

I thought he was tying him into a business partner with the TC guy making replicas. Said they had a business in Wyoming and it was signed with Bo Vail and TC

Yep my bad