impressive digital sleuthing around ginault drama from WUS

[hoppyjr]

Do you think this guy is further investigating his accusations against Vail and Dick-Bo? I mean the Ginault/ Rep connection is no surprise to me whatsoever. But these two names included is.

If their real names were used and the filing was legitimate then I’d say it deserves more in-depth research, but simply using forum usernames doesn’t mean shit.

[Bradystraps]

Do you think this guy is further investigating his accusations against Vail and Dick-Bo? I mean the Ginault/ Rep connection is no surprise to me whatsoever. But these two names included is.

If their real names were used and the filing was legitimate then I’d say it deserves more in-depth research, but simply using forum usernames doesn’t mean shit.

Ed, I was referring to the guy further investigating Vail and Bo as he made an accusation and then was called out for it. He seems like the kind of guy that would want to possibly further investigate to legitimize his initial claim.

[CGSshorty]

I can’t see any law enforcement agency pursuing charges against someone who most likely resides in China, especially considering there doesn’t appear to be any obvious financial loss suffered by the victims.

[Ryeguy]

I can’t see any law enforcement agency pursuing charges against someone who most likely resides in China, especially considering there doesn’t appear to be any obvious financial loss suffered by the victims.

I think the lack of financial loss by the victims is the key element. If, for example, a line of credit was opened against one of the victims using the fictitious company, that might cause some concern, but without clear evidence of financial loss it probably isn’t a high priority.

More than likely the state of Wyoming will just cancel the business listing completely.

I still wonder the purpose of creating he business in the first place, and he selection of Wyoming as the state to incorporate in. It all seems so random.

The only thing I can think of is Ginault needed a hidden business identity in order to make purchases from suppliers (a tax ID number). This way, if a Ginault supplier runs afoul with the law (say, for supplying replica parts), the investigators will not find Ginault on the manufacturer’s customer list.

[justsellbrgs]

I'm not sure why he keeps digging in. Not everyone will like him or his watches he needs to let it go. He's found success and a fan base not sure why he needs to dispute with everyone who doesn't see eye to eye.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

That is his MO. Almost like he is trying to bully people into believing his way is the only way.

Seriously, the guy has been posting massive posts on forums for years.... who has the time for all that.???
When reading his threads I always come back to - I could care less about the watches. And the guys overly argumentative attitude is annoying.

Another thought - always interesting to me how WUS people use the “over there” or “ on that other forum” comment..... you mean the forum with open discussion? No over moderation??
Yea that’s the forum.


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Someone said on wus that DWC bans people.

I remember when Art got temp-banned. Ben too for some reason. That was so long ago.

Rick Holland is only serious banning I recall in 10 years.....

[Bradystraps]

Thanks Ed and Chris for the clarification.
I thought the unproven (but extremely credible) allegations of selling fake Rolexes may have potentially raised the interest of the law with the Ginault guy.

Perhaps, from the manufacturing standpoint. Rolex has had mild interest at best with the vast amount of replica watches actually having the name “Rolex” on the dial. These did not have their name on them.
It is possible there will be heightened interest in the NOOB factories producing the watch components though.

[deepcdvr]

I may be in the minority here, but these companies - Ginault in this case - only have a business because of demand. When a quality used Rolex sub was about 5K, I’d be more likely to save up my dimes. When an F series, beat up, no box/papers sub is selling in 8 hours for nearly 10K, it’s a more difficult pill to swallow. Rolex has caused this spike in prices due to their business practices. Not blaming them for the pseudo-rep market but it is what it is and when someone puts out a decent copy for about a grand, this is what you get.

[Bradystraps]

When I was talking about possible criminal activity, I was referring to the fact that it seems like the same guy behind Ginault was the infamous “Thomas Caddel” making the super replicas.

At the very beginning when I was looking into Ginault I found out about this guy.

Google “TC Sub V7 extreme”, it’s so good it’s scary

Heard many Rollie “experts” could only tell difference by removing the case back and examining the movement carefully. Scary indeed.

[sierra11b]

I may be in the minority here, but these companies - Ginault in this case - only have a business because of demand. When a quality used Rolex sub was about 5K, I’d be more likely to save up my dimes. When an F series, beat up, no box/papers sub is selling in 8 hours for nearly 10K, it’s a more difficult pill to swallow. Rolex has caused this spike in prices due to their business practices. Not blaming them for the pseudo-rep market but it is what it is and when someone puts out a decent copy for about a grand, this is what you get.

It's a good point. But I have to wonder if those inclined to buy a fake would be buying the fake anyways if the current Rolex market was back where it was a mere five years ago. Stupid is as stupid does so part of me thinks the fake market would be the same (maybe a slight increase) with the usual suspects willing to purchase, and the rest of the market looking for legit alternatives outside of Rolex. If anything, maybe it'll encourage an even better Chinese fake in the <$2000 range. The Worn & Wound reviews are damn scary... With the daytona a little bit of testors metal flake silver model paint and mineral spirits would make it even harder.





I wonder if there's a way of tracking such activity? Makes you want to be a fly on the wall in the Rolex board room with that one or two rogue attorneys warning them on the downside to their recent practices.

[Bradystraps]

The "best" TC version with all of the mods was in the $2K range if I remember correctly. Last I read, about a year ago, NOOB was working on modified movement that was essentially undetectable to gen.
FYI, NOOB factories reach out to watch companies all the time looking to produce for them. They have contacted me twice in the past few years.

[deepcdvr]

Yeah - scary stuff indeed

My point was not that dudes that buy rep watches are more likely now to buy them then they were a few years ago. My point was that these “reputable” homage producers are more likely to get the business now from us non-ballers then they would have back in the day due to the exponential increase in cost of getting into a starter Rolex. Ginault provides a relatively high quality piece with an awesome bracelet and (for most) comes without the NOOB shame...

//

To Todd’s point, I have no idea what a Ginault costs new but you can pick up a used one most days for about 900 bucks or so.

[59yukon01]

To this day I just don't get why anybody buys a Rolex wannabe, regardless of price. I'm content wearing an original design Seiko before I'd drop cash on anything like that.

[Torrid]

To this day I just don't get why anybody buys a Rolex wannabe, regardless of price. I'm content wearing an original design Seiko before I'd drop cash on anything like that.

After trying Squale and Steinhart subs I do agree even if Rolex is more than I want to spend.

[hoppyjr]

To this day I just don't get why anybody buys a Rolex wannabe, regardless of price. I'm content wearing an original design Seiko before I'd drop cash on anything like that.

Yes. A real Seiko beats a fake Rolex all day long.

[Ryeguy]

When I was talking about possible criminal activity, I was referring to the fact that it seems like the same guy behind Ginault was the infamous “Thomas Caddel” making the super replicas.

At the very beginning when I was looking into Ginault I found out about this guy.

Google “TC Sub V7 extreme”, it’s so good it’s scary

OK - then to clarify my comment, I was referring to the falsification of the signatures on the Wyoming document. This is the most “prosecutable” accusation in the pile.

While this is a felony according to the document itself, I don’t think the state of Wyoming will pursue charges due to Chris and Bo not suffering monetary damages. Instead, I’d bet the just cancel the article of incorporation.

As for him being a former replica maker accusations, I think the key word is “former”. There is no allegation made that TC is still in business. TC also sold replicas to people who knew they were buying replicas, so there was no willful concealment. He never tried to pass them off as authentic watches. This kind of gives him a layer of protection as I’d say the buyers of the replicas were just as complicit as the seller.

Also, by all accounts TC was on the “high quality/ low volume” end of the replica market. I’d think investigators might be interested if he were importing high volumes of counterfeit watches (or could lead them to those guys), but I’d bet his total watch sales were measured in the dozens per year.

[Chocodove]

Didn't Lum Tec also mod/create fake Panerai's until he got a C&D from them and went legit?

[HapaHapa]

Yeah - scary stuff indeed

My point was not that dudes that buy rep watches are more likely now to buy them then they were a few years ago. My point was that these “reputable” homage producers are more likely to get the business now from us non-ballers then they would have back in the day due to the exponential increase in cost of getting into a starter Rolex. Ginault provides a relatively high quality piece with an awesome bracelet and (for most) comes without the NOOB shame...

//

To Todd’s point, I have no idea what a Ginault costs new but you can pick up a used one most days for about 900 bucks or so.

There’s no such thing as a starter Rolex for most people these days (or any for that matter). Used Rolex 10-15 years ago was a couple grand at the jewelry shop, give or take? A person could save toward that, but current prices just can’t be done for a family household with kids. Steinhart, Squale, Ginault are the options. Really seems like Ginault should have had the resources to create their own version. Like what NTH did.

[toxicavenger]

...I hope you didn’t...

[toxicavenger]

The guy who exposed it is a legit weirdo who has done a very similar thing previously. More likely that the weirdo got motivated to do it due to the new release.

He said when he was doing the investigating on the Polo guy the Ginault was dropped in his lap. So he decided to pursue it later on.

[toxicavenger]

Didn't Lum Tec also mod/create fake Panerai's until he got a C&D from them and went legit?

He did lume work on the Davidson watches for people if I recall.

[toxicavenger]

As the old saying goes, all publicly is good publicity.

I do not think Vail would agree

[Deepdweller]

Hello everyone! Just registered.

I appreciate you all reading my exposé. It's not short, I know. I'm going to respond to your comments later.


I have a problem. Someone is flooding Google to bury my write-up.

Here's some screengrabs:



As you can see, it's all spammy irrelevant results, and when clicked, the page doesn't even have Ginault written anywhere.

Obviously, my exposé is something Tsung Chi doesn't want out there and someone is trying to bury it on Google via hostile SEO tactics. Even the exact lexic.co url to my exposé doesn't show up on Google.

You can personally verify it by searching for "Ginault", with quotes, and filtering the results for the past 24 hours.


And here are the results archived:
https://archive.is/IjU6M
https://archive.is/UoEm7





Here's another thing that's fishy. Ginault's thread on WUS.

At times the thread would lock up. The last post on the thread's timestamp would show a certain timestamp inside the thread, but when you view the thread on the sub-forum where it's listed, you'll see the actual timestamp of the last post.

It's possible that the replies are being filtered and manually approved.

Here's a sample from yesterday:


Those screengrabs were taken literally seconds apart and immediately after refreshing the pages.
As you can see, inside the thread it says "3 hours ago", but in the sub-forum where it's listed, it shows "5 hours ago".



If anyone of you guys could relay this on the WUS thread, that'd be great.

[toxicavenger]

Here's another thing that's fishy. Ginault's thread on WUS.

At times the thread would lock up. The last post on the thread's timestamp would show a certain timestamp inside the thread, but when you view the thread on the sub-forum where it's listed, you'll see the actual timestamp of the last post.

It's possible that the replies are being filtered and manually approved.

Here's a sample from yesterday:


Those screengrabs were taken literally seconds apart and immediately after refreshing the pages.
As you can see, inside the thread it says "3 hours ago", but in the sub-forum where it's listed, it shows "5 hours ago".



If anyone of you guys could relay this on the WUS thread, that'd be great.

That is a common issue. If you do not log in there it will not always update.

Welcome to the forum also.

[Deepdweller]

That is a common issue. If you do not log in there it will not always update.

Welcome to the forum also.

Is it? Why does it seem like no one's replying during the time it's frozen though? And I can't log in, they banned me, lol. Thanks for the welcome!

[Torrid]

That is a common issue. If you do not log in there it will not always update.

Welcome to the forum also.

Is it? Why does it seem like no one's replying during the time it's frozen though? And I can't log in, they banned me, lol. Thanks for the welcome!

I’ve been banned so many times. When they find my new name being tied to my old accounts it’ll happen again. Fortunately for me I got new devices and moved around the same time i signed back up so it’s possible they won’t figure it out this time. I originally got banned for arguing with idiots.