Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

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ericf4
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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by ericf4 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:23 am

all i care about is that it looks nice and I can put scotch tape on the clasp.....also does it accommodate 2 screwdrivers on the bracelet links?

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Grahamcombat
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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by Grahamcombat » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:35 am

Henryj wrote:
Grahamcombat wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:00 am
Henryj wrote:Anywaaaaaayy,

Static pressure at 300 meters is about 441 psi. Add the 25% for wet testing as a dive watch and we see 551 psi as a static test pressure. Even if you’re a hood ornament on a 688, you could safely go to test depth at a flank bell and the watch would be fine, but I doubt even Paul would volunteer to be the test dummy for that little caper.
My initial thoughts were relating to surf zone and shore break and the force endured in that tumble smash.
You might need to worry about banging against rocks, heads, sand, random hard bits, but you won’t see any of the giant mythological pressure spikes from water that WUS desk divers get all a-flutter about.
That impact force on sand and surface is what I’m wanting to quantify: getting tumbled in the shore break equals WHAT in terms of how many mallet strikes or drops from what height...that kind of thing.

I’m not wrapped around the axle about it, but I’d like to know what the numbers say. Since no company talks about it, either 1) it hasn’t been done, 2) it’s been done but it doesn’t matter or 3) it matters a lot but they didn’t like the results.

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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by dnslater » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:36 am

ericf4 wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:23 am
all i care about is that it looks nice and I can put scotch tape on the clasp.....also does it accommodate 2 screwdrivers on the bracelet links?
And does it have a reverse perpetual calendar feature that is good for 5 months and 17 days?

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toxicavenger
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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by toxicavenger » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:13 am

how many headboards bashing's can it take??? asking for a friend

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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by rockmastermike » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:26 am

All I know is I want one

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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by Chocodove » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:35 am

rockmastermike wrote:All I know is I want one
Yep.
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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by Grahamcombat » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:41 am

toxicavenger wrote:how many headboards bashing's can it take??? asking for a friend
I believe this will be the first watch with a Certified Waterboard Rating

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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by Grahamcombat » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:45 am

And is it measured in Gallons/Hours or was it hours/gallons? I don’t remember. It was measured in fun, that’s all I know. And a little bit o’ vengeance. Or maybe it was a lot of vengeance and a little bit of fun. Either way. It’ll do the job.

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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by Sidheguitarist » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:57 am

deepcdvr wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:13 pm
I’m in Panama City for something and my buddy is the test director for the SAT/FADS project down the street (I think you can google it?)
You can indeed google it, and to my lay person’s eye, it looks like somebody in there would be the guy to talk to about this.

Or Henry.
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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by JDC222 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:33 am

Henryj wrote:I love Google, it’s a crutch for tired memory. I knew there was a simple calc for dynamic pressure of water based on velocity. Very short form example is 69.5 psi is the dynamic pressure of water at 70 mph. So, if you jump out of a car on the freeway into a lake, you’ll see a pressure spike of 69.5 psi assuming you don’t hit pavement first and slow down. I learned this in nuke school with pump laws. Note the relationship is NOT linear, it’s a square function for velocity vs pressure. 35 mph (1/2) drops the pressure by 4 times or 17 psi and change. Going the other way, 140 mph (double the original speed) you go up in pressure by 2 squared or four for a dynamic pressure of about 280 psi.

How fast do you want to go? And will you care what time it is when you hit?
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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by Ryeguy » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:37 am

Henryj wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:28 am
I love Google, it’s a crutch for tired memory. I knew there was a simple calc for dynamic pressure of water based on velocity. Very short form example is 69.5 psi is the dynamic pressure of water at 70 mph. So, if you jump out of a car on the freeway into a lake, you’ll see a pressure spike of 69.5 psi assuming you don’t hit pavement first and slow down. I learned this in nuke school with pump laws. Note the relationship is NOT linear, it’s a square function for velocity vs pressure. 35 mph (1/2) drops the pressure by 4 times or 17 psi and change. Going the other way, 140 mph (double the original speed) you go up in pressure by 2 squared or four for a dynamic pressure of about 280 psi.

How fast do you want to go? And will you care what time it is when you hit?
I've been thinking about this too.

Thinking about this as an enthusiastic (note, I didn't say "good") surfer, I think there are actually two impacts that should be considered.

First is the fall. Assuming a 200 lb / 90 kg surfer, a fall from a "head high" / 6' foot wave gets you going at about 6.26 meters / second with a 1764 joules impact. That is just the fall.

A surfer is also traveling at a speed. Google says 15mph is about average for a surfer (or 6.706 m/s), so you have the energy generated from the fall, plus the energy generated from the momentum from surfing along the wave itself.

I'm not certain how to best calculate for this as you could fall from the top of the wave (very little forward momentum, but accelerate 6 feet straight down) or fall at the bottom of the wave having achieved maximum forward velocity, but very little height. Obviously, any point in between is potentially possible too with a mix of forward velocity and potential downward velocity if a fall occurred.

These represent the forces generated from the first impact.

The second impact is the wave itself falling on the surfer. A 3' summer wave, only 20 inches thick and only about 3 feet wide is 1,100 lbs of water. A cubic meter of water weighs about 1 metric ton. Assuming my back of an airport napkin calculations are correct, a 6' wave that is 1 meter wide (the width of a surfer's body) contains a volume of about 2640 kg /5,820 lbs of water. This is going to fall on the surfer's body after the surfer hits the water.

Falling gets you the double whammy of the initial impact from the fall itself, then the pleasure of having 5,000 lbs of water crash on you - at best holding you down, at worst tumbling you like a rag doll up onto the beach.

Finally, don't forget you have a 20 - 30 lb length of hard fiberglass tethered to your ankle being exposed to the same forces. I personally know two individuals who have been hit by surfboards in the face, both suffering fractured eye sockets and cheek bones (some of the stronger areas of the human skull I am told).

I would expect it would be pretty much game over for any watch that was directly impacted by a falling surfboard as all that energy is delivered to a very small impact site. If it will crack your skull, it'll shatter a watch crystal for certain.

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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by Henryj » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:35 am

Ryeguy wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:37 am
Henryj wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:28 am
I love Google, it’s a crutch for tired memory. I knew there was a simple calc for dynamic pressure of water based on velocity. Very short form example is 69.5 psi is the dynamic pressure of water at 70 mph. So, if you jump out of a car on the freeway into a lake, you’ll see a pressure spike of 69.5 psi assuming you don’t hit pavement first and slow down. I learned this in nuke school with pump laws. Note the relationship is NOT linear, it’s a square function for velocity vs pressure. 35 mph (1/2) drops the pressure by 4 times or 17 psi and change. Going the other way, 140 mph (double the original speed) you go up in pressure by 2 squared or four for a dynamic pressure of about 280 psi.

How fast do you want to go? And will you care what time it is when you hit?
I've been thinking about this too.

Thinking about this as an enthusiastic (note, I didn't say "good") surfer, I think there are actually two impacts that should be considered.

First is the fall. Assuming a 200 lb / 90 kg surfer, a fall from a "head high" / 6' foot wave gets you going at about 6.26 meters / second with a 1764 joules impact. That is just the fall.

A surfer is also traveling at a speed. Google says 15mph is about average for a surfer (or 6.706 m/s), so you have the energy generated from the fall, plus the energy generated from the momentum from surfing along the wave itself.

I'm not certain how to best calculate for this as you could fall from the top of the wave (very little forward momentum, but accelerate 6 feet straight down) or fall at the bottom of the wave having achieved maximum forward velocity, but very little height. Obviously, any point in between is potentially possible too with a mix of forward velocity and potential downward velocity if a fall occurred.

These represent the forces generated from the first impact.

The second impact is the wave itself falling on the surfer. A 3' summer wave, only 20 inches thick and only about 3 feet wide is 1,100 lbs of water. A cubic meter of water weighs about 1 metric ton. Assuming my back of an airport napkin calculations are correct, a 6' wave that is 1 meter wide (the width of a surfer's body) contains a volume of about 2640 kg /5,820 lbs of water. This is going to fall on the surfer's body after the surfer hits the water.

Falling gets you the double whammy of the initial impact from the fall itself, then the pleasure of having 5,000 lbs of water crash on you - at best holding you down, at worst tumbling you like a rag doll up onto the beach.

Finally, don't forget you have a 20 - 30 lb length of hard fiberglass tethered to your ankle being exposed to the same forces. I personally know two individuals who have been hit by surfboards in the face, both suffering fractured eye sockets and cheek bones (some of the stronger areas of the human skull I am told).

I would expect it would be pretty much game over for any watch that was directly impacted by a falling surfboard as all that energy is delivered to a very small impact site. If it will crack your skull, it'll shatter a watch crystal for certain.
If you’re a meter wide, I’d love to see the board that would hold you. Seriously, though, you need to keep in mind that with only a couple square inches of surface area on the average watch, only that same couple square inches of water column hitting it are going to matter.

I see Matt’s concern, and it’s a bit different than where I originally went. As far as impact goes, there are two broad areas I see. First is overall acceleration, it ain’t the speed that kills ya, it’s the sudden stop. Watch survivability in that is going to be a function of how many g’s can a movement take? That pretty much sets the bar. Even if a case and crystal survive, the movement can still snuff it. This is why Incabloc and diashock and all the rest were invented, to protect the most vulnerable part of the movement from shocks the rest of the watch can just shake off. Secondly, there’s point impact. That’s the little bugger that delivers less total energy, but focuses it one one small point, usually the crystal. All you have going for you there is material choice, thickness, and shape.

All you can do, as I see it, is design a good, solid watch being picky about movements (quartz can usually out-tough mechanical), use quality materials (sapphire is more scratchproof, but hardlex is tougher), design it for real users with a clear and simple look. The classics have nice big markers and sword or stick hands for a reason. Design a bezel and crown cold, wet, and tired hands can manage. A slightly domed crystal will take more abuse, both pressure and impact than a flat one can handle.

And finally, give it a simple, non-cutesy name, none of this Herniated Disco Moray Special Operations Ninja Seal Combat Attack Force X Timer crap. How about BAGwatch? Bad Ass Graham watch, and it’s a watch you can chuck into your go bag.

My two fils, worth what you paid for it.
If someone tells you "Anal leakage sounds like fun", have him list a watch for sale on WUS.

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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by JDC222 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:12 am

Ryeguy wrote:
Henryj wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:28 am
I love Google, it’s a crutch for tired memory. I knew there was a simple calc for dynamic pressure of water based on velocity. Very short form example is 69.5 psi is the dynamic pressure of water at 70 mph. So, if you jump out of a car on the freeway into a lake, you’ll see a pressure spike of 69.5 psi assuming you don’t hit pavement first and slow down. I learned this in nuke school with pump laws. Note the relationship is NOT linear, it’s a square function for velocity vs pressure. 35 mph (1/2) drops the pressure by 4 times or 17 psi and change. Going the other way, 140 mph (double the original speed) you go up in pressure by 2 squared or four for a dynamic pressure of about 280 psi.

How fast do you want to go? And will you care what time it is when you hit?
I've been thinking about this too.

Thinking about this as an enthusiastic (note, I didn't say "good") surfer, I think there are actually two impacts that should be considered.

First is the fall. Assuming a 200 lb / 90 kg surfer, a fall from a "head high" / 6' foot wave gets you going at about 6.26 meters / second with a 1764 joules impact. That is just the fall.

A surfer is also traveling at a speed. Google says 15mph is about average for a surfer (or 6.706 m/s), so you have the energy generated from the fall, plus the energy generated from the momentum from surfing along the wave itself.

I'm not certain how to best calculate for this as you could fall from the top of the wave (very little forward momentum, but accelerate 6 feet straight down) or fall at the bottom of the wave having achieved maximum forward velocity, but very little height. Obviously, any point in between is potentially possible too with a mix of forward velocity and potential downward velocity if a fall occurred.

These represent the forces generated from the first impact.

The second impact is the wave itself falling on the surfer. A 3' summer wave, only 20 inches thick and only about 3 feet wide is 1,100 lbs of water. A cubic meter of water weighs about 1 metric ton. Assuming my back of an airport napkin calculations are correct, a 6' wave that is 1 meter wide (the width of a surfer's body) contains a volume of about 2640 kg /5,820 lbs of water. This is going to fall on the surfer's body after the surfer hits the water.

Falling gets you the double whammy of the initial impact from the fall itself, then the pleasure of having 5,000 lbs of water crash on you - at best holding you down, at worst tumbling you like a rag doll up onto the beach.

Finally, don't forget you have a 20 - 30 lb length of hard fiberglass tethered to your ankle being exposed to the same forces. I personally know two individuals who have been hit by surfboards in the face, both suffering fractured eye sockets and cheek bones (some of the stronger areas of the human skull I am told).

I would expect it would be pretty much game over for any watch that was directly impacted by a falling surfboard as all that energy is delivered to a very small impact site. If it will crack your skull, it'll shatter a watch crystal for certain.
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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by Captdave » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:01 pm

Henryj wrote:I love Google, it’s a crutch for tired memory. I knew there was a simple calc for dynamic pressure of water based on velocity. Very short form example is 69.5 psi is the dynamic pressure of water at 70 mph. So, if you jump out of a car on the freeway into a lake, you’ll see a pressure spike of 69.5 psi assuming you don’t hit pavement first and slow down. I learned this in nuke school with pump laws. Note the relationship is NOT linear, it’s a square function for velocity vs pressure. 35 mph (1/2) drops the pressure by 4 times or 17 psi and change. Going the other way, 140 mph (double the original speed) you go up in pressure by 2 squared or four for a dynamic pressure of about 280 psi.

How fast do you want to go? And will you care what time it is when you hit?
Factoring in that depending on the ambient temperature and altitude water is 700 to 800 times denser than air.


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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by Captdave » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:06 pm

JDC222 wrote:
Ryeguy wrote:
Henryj wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:28 am
I love Google, it’s a crutch for tired memory. I knew there was a simple calc for dynamic pressure of water based on velocity. Very short form example is 69.5 psi is the dynamic pressure of water at 70 mph. So, if you jump out of a car on the freeway into a lake, you’ll see a pressure spike of 69.5 psi assuming you don’t hit pavement first and slow down. I learned this in nuke school with pump laws. Note the relationship is NOT linear, it’s a square function for velocity vs pressure. 35 mph (1/2) drops the pressure by 4 times or 17 psi and change. Going the other way, 140 mph (double the original speed) you go up in pressure by 2 squared or four for a dynamic pressure of about 280 psi.

How fast do you want to go? And will you care what time it is when you hit?
I've been thinking about this too.

Thinking about this as an enthusiastic (note, I didn't say "good") surfer, I think there are actually two impacts that should be considered.

First is the fall. Assuming a 200 lb / 90 kg surfer, a fall from a "head high" / 6' foot wave gets you going at about 6.26 meters / second with a 1764 joules impact. That is just the fall.

A surfer is also traveling at a speed. Google says 15mph is about average for a surfer (or 6.706 m/s), so you have the energy generated from the fall, plus the energy generated from the momentum from surfing along the wave itself.

I'm not certain how to best calculate for this as you could fall from the top of the wave (very little forward momentum, but accelerate 6 feet straight down) or fall at the bottom of the wave having achieved maximum forward velocity, but very little height. Obviously, any point in between is potentially possible too with a mix of forward velocity and potential downward velocity if a fall occurred.

These represent the forces generated from the first impact.

The second impact is the wave itself falling on the surfer. A 3' summer wave, only 20 inches thick and only about 3 feet wide is 1,100 lbs of water. A cubic meter of water weighs about 1 metric ton. Assuming my back of an airport napkin calculations are correct, a 6' wave that is 1 meter wide (the width of a surfer's body) contains a volume of about 2640 kg /5,820 lbs of water. This is going to fall on the surfer's body after the surfer hits the water.

Falling gets you the double whammy of the initial impact from the fall itself, then the pleasure of having 5,000 lbs of water crash on you - at best holding you down, at worst tumbling you like a rag doll up onto the beach.

Finally, don't forget you have a 20 - 30 lb length of hard fiberglass tethered to your ankle being exposed to the same forces. I personally know two individuals who have been hit by surfboards in the face, both suffering fractured eye sockets and cheek bones (some of the stronger areas of the human skull I am told).

I would expect it would be pretty much game over for any watch that was directly impacted by a falling surfboard as all that energy is delivered to a very small impact site. If it will crack your skull, it'll shatter a watch crystal for certain.
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Another hobby we have in commonImageImage in my trade we call them “personal flotation devices” or “can bouys”


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dinexus
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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by dinexus » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:08 am

65 posts in, and we got titties, but no watch... am I the only one who has no idea what this thing looks like?


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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by bedlam » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:22 am

There was a guy who did the physics calculations on 'dynamic pressure' on one of the forums. He found that for the fastest it was possible for a diver to move their arm underwater it would generate 3m of additional water pressure at whatever depth they were at. So not really a big thing.

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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by JDC222 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:54 am

dinexus wrote:65 posts in, and we got titties, but no watch... am I the only one who has no idea what this thing looks like?


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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by Grahamcombat » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:58 am

dinexus wrote:65 posts in, and we got titties, but no watch... am I the only one who has no idea what this thing looks like?


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I’ll get some pics up, or links to pics, when we officially ‘launch’.

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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by toxicavenger » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:37 am

you should mount a watch on the side of the serving table at an all you can eat buffet. that will be one hell of a test to pass :mrgreen:

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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by Grahamcombat » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:54 am

toxicavenger wrote:you should mount a watch on the side of the serving table at an all you can eat buffet. that will be one hell of a test to pass :mrgreen:
I was thinking that if it’s a true SOF “operator” watch it would need to withstand a thousand revolutions around a stripper pole, be visible through a cloud of hookah smoke, survive the fall from being tossed out of a second or third story window with the rest of the stuff during the “break up”, and defy bezel scratches when rubbed against the lifted truck.

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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by Sidheguitarist » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:16 am

Grahamcombat wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:54 am
I was thinking that if it’s a true SOF “operator” watch it would need to withstand a thousand revolutions around a stripper pole, be visible through a cloud of hookah smoke, survive the fall from being tossed out of a second or third story window with the rest of the stuff during the “break up”, and defy bezel scratches when rubbed against the lifted truck.

So this is what’s become of the “Rolex, sports car, divorce papers." We’re entering an era of real-world pragmatism.
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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by Grahamcombat » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:23 am

Sidheguitarist wrote:
Grahamcombat wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:54 am
I was thinking that if it’s a true SOF “operator” watch it would need to withstand a thousand revolutions around a stripper pole, be visible through a cloud of hookah smoke, survive the fall from being tossed out of a second or third story window with the rest of the stuff during the “break up”, and defy bezel scratches when rubbed against the lifted truck.

So this is what’s become of the “Rolex, sports car, divorce papers." We’re entering an era of real-world pragmatism.
Oh, I jest Michael, I jest. Everyone knows you don’t leave anything at a girlfriends house that’s valuable. #notmyfirstrodeo

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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by dinexus » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:45 am

JDC222 wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:54 am
dinexus wrote:65 posts in, and we got titties, but no watch... am I the only one who has no idea what this thing looks like?
Image
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Re: Physical Oceanography/Applied Physics

Post by hidden by leaves » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:57 am

Grahamcombat wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:58 am
dinexus wrote:65 posts in, and we got titties, but no watch... am I the only one who has no idea what this thing looks like?


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I’ll get some pics up, or links to pics, when we officially ‘launch’.
Looking forward to that. In the meantime can you say who "we" is? :thumbsup: (Canadian sorry if mentioned elsewhere and I missed it).
Send lawyers, guns and money...

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