New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

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logan2z
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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by logan2z » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:37 pm

While I'd certainly prefer an LLD no-date to the date version, I actually think the date version looks pretty good - much better than this blatant ripoff from Helson with the awful yellow lume.

Hopefully the Swatch Group will sue Helson out of existence.

Image

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by logan2z » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:40 pm

Panerai7 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:24 pm
Had the grey dial for a few weeks on loan and couldn't live with the date window.

Image
If it were centered between the markers it might have a hope of working, but as is it's a fail.

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by Panerai7 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:44 pm

logan2z wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:40 pm
Panerai7 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:24 pm
Had the grey dial for a few weeks on loan and couldn't live with the date window.

Image
If it were centered between the markers it might have a hope of working, but as is it's a fail.
Agreed

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by logan2z » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:51 pm

ericf4 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:05 pm
Panerai7 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:00 pm
Oh hell yeah I'm getting that. can't find a no date LLD, Polaris is a poser joke of a diver, Alpina has a f-ed up date window at 4:15. This is it for the compressor.
Thanks for the heads up
wasn't there a LLD no date for sale here recently? Perhaps the price seemed a bit nutty if i recall, unless thats actually the going rate recently.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=63103

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by tattoo chef » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:29 pm

logan2z wrote:While I'd certainly prefer an LLD no-date to the date version, I actually think the date version looks pretty good - much better than this blatant ripoff from Helson with the awful yellow lume.

Hopefully the Swatch Group will sue Helson out of existence.

Image
I doubt it, Omega didn’t sue Helson when they did the Ploprof copy as far as I know. (Yeah, this isn’t the first time they have done a blatant copy).

Pic from web
Image


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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by tattoo chef » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:31 pm

Panerai7 wrote:
ericf4 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:56 pm
Panerai7 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:45 pm
ericf4 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:26 pm
i got no respect for a "brand" who literally rips off like this. Taking inspiration is one thing but this aint that....
It's a blatant copy but it's frustrating that there's nothing like this out there by anyone else including Longines, the one with the date is a no-go
Just to be clear, I'm not judging you because you want to get one. Hell, to get the same watch (pretty much) at half the price, i understand....That said, Helson should be ashamed.

ImageImage
It's not about the price with me you know that :)
I would pay the exact same amount for what LLD NO Date retails for.
if anyone has a BNIB LLD No Date with over a year warranty left in their safe, let me know
if anyone knows of another company that makes a compressor style diver with screw down crowns, domed crystal and no date, let me know as well :thumbsup:
https://www.gruppogammawatches.com/coll ... y=25527851





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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by logan2z » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:55 pm

tattoo chef wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:29 pm
Omega didn’t sue Helson when they did the Ploprof copy as far as I know. (Yeah, this isn’t the first time they have done a blatant copy).

Pic from web
Image
Pathetic.

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by andrema » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:35 pm

ericf4 wrote:
Panerai7 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:02 pm
ericf4 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:56 pm
Panerai7 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:45 pm
ericf4 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:26 pm
i got no respect for a "brand" who literally rips off like this. Taking inspiration is one thing but this aint that....
It's a blatant copy but it's frustrating that there's nothing like this out there by anyone else including Longines, the one with the date is a no-go
Just to be clear, I'm not judging you because you want to get one. Hell, to get the same watch (pretty much) at half the price, i understand....That said, Helson should be ashamed.

ImageImage
It's not about the price with me you know that :)
I would pay the exact same amount for what LLD NO Date retails for.
if anyone has a BNIB LLD No Date with over a year warranty left in their safe, let me know
if anyone knows of another company that makes a compressor style diver with screw down crowns, domed crystal and no date, let me know as well :thumbsup:
you know what im saying dude. Point is, its not the buyer, its the maker i have issue with, regardless of your motivations
Gruppo
Image

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by jeckyll » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:54 pm

nweash wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:45 am
Whoever did the pee job for that lume need to drink more water.
This.
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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by dnslater » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:55 pm

The whole situation is pretty funny actually. Helson continually rips off Swatch Group designs (Omega SM300, Ploprof, Longines Legend) and Swatch just keeps selling Helson ETA movements to put in these very watches. You would think they could at least cut off the movement supply, but they are probably moved through third party brokers...... and the number of watches and price point that Helson deals with doesn't threaten Swatch.

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by Blackdog » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:02 pm

tattoo chef wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:29 pm
I doubt it, Omega didn’t sue Helson when they did the Ploprof copy as far as I know. (Yeah, this isn’t the first time they have done a blatant copy).

Pic from web
Image
Indeed a copy, but at least this watch (and the SM1000, and the SM300 now) have been extint for some decades. And it was a good quality copy, no 58 bezel clicks here, if you know what I mean. I do find some usefulness in that.

Debatable, i know, but that marks the limits of a homage to me. Obviouly, YMMV.

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by dnslater » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:23 pm

Blackdog wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:02 pm

Indeed a copy, but at least this watch (and the SM1000, and the SM300 now) have been extint for some decades. And it was a good quality copy, no 58 bezel clicks here, if you know what I mean. I do find some usefulness in that.

Debatable, i know, but that marks the limits of a homage to me. Obviouly, YMMV.
Ploprof was reintroduced by Omega in 2009

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by Blackdog » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:44 pm

dnslater wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:23 pm
Blackdog wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:02 pm

Indeed a copy, but at least this watch (and the SM1000, and the SM300 now) have been extint for some decades. And it was a good quality copy, no 58 bezel clicks here, if you know what I mean. I do find some usefulness in that.

Debatable, i know, but that marks the limits of a homage to me. Obviouly, YMMV.
Ploprof was reintroduced by Omega in 2009
Yes, and other than the basic funky shape it's a very different watch. And there's always been a Seamaster 300 in production in one shape or another. The Fifty Fathoms has too been around in different versions. Also true is that all these newer incarnations by the original brands ar likely vastly superior products than any Helson.

What I tried to say is that they were copies/tributes/homages of the original vintage designs, that have been out of production for years. Though that doesn't make them any less of a copy, I have to admit.

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by outtatime » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:19 pm

2100 for a LLD is about 600 too much...
Current
Alpina Extreme Diver 300 | Benarus Ti47 | Breitling Avenger Seawolf | Eterna KonTiki Super 1973 | Hamilton Jazzmaster Viewmatic | Hamilton Pan Europ | IWC Aquatimer 2000 | Korsbek Oceaneer | Linde Werdelin The One 2.6 | Omega Seamaster 300 Spectre | Omega Seamaster 300 Titanium | Omega Seamaster 2531.80 | Omega Speedmaster Broad Arrow | Panerai 005 | Rolex Deepsea | Steinhart Nav-B 6497 | Steinhart Ocean Vintage Military | Stowa Seatime | Zenith El Primero Stratos

Incoming


Considering
PAM 422 | AP Royal Oak 15400 Silver | Rolex Explorer II 42mm Polar | Omega PO 8500 XL


Sometimes it's easier just to watch

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by bedlam » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:10 pm

Copy watches are wrong.

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by Seppia » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:53 am

Reality is both the Longines re edition and this Helson suck (obviously, the helson sucks more)
The lugs only work if you have Ed’s or Art’s wrists as they are stupid long for most people.

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by Ryeguy » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:08 am

While I realize it is all a personal decision as to where your judgement lies on these "homages", I'm going with the hard pass on this one. I can't be disgusted with the MM300 copies and Tuna copies being so beloved on WUS and not lump this into the same category.

The SM300 copy I feel is a different animal as the original design is long out of production. The only way to get an "original" is through Watchco, and I have often wondered how they seem to have found an endless supply of NOS Omega SM300 cases.

The Ploprof "homage" irks me a bit too. If memory serves, O7 released their copy, then Omega re-released it, then Helson released their copy a couple years after (like '08, then '09, then 2012). Given the closeness of the releases and the time it likely took all three makers to tool up, the Ploprof homages are a little bit more grey than this Longines copy.

In my opinion, making a watch that is a derivative design of a long out of production watch is fair game. Copying a current design with the sole intent of producing a cheaper option is not much different than e knock offs we see across the fashion industry.

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by Panerai7 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:42 am

Ryeguy wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:08 am
While I realize it is all a personal decision as to where your judgement lies on these "homages", I'm going with the hard pass on this one. I can't be disgusted with the MM300 copies and Tuna copies being so beloved on WUS and not lump this into the same category.

The SM300 copy I feel is a different animal as the original design is long out of production. The only way to get an "original" is through Watchco, and I have often wondered how they seem to have found an endless supply of NOS Omega SM300 cases.

The Ploprof "homage" irks me a bit too. If memory serves, O7 released their copy, then Omega re-released it, then Helson released their copy a couple years after (like '08, then '09, then 2012). Given the closeness of the releases and the time it likely took all three makers to tool up, the Ploprof homages are a little bit more grey than this Longines copy.

In my opinion, making a watch that is a derivative design of a long out of production watch is fair game. Copying a current design with the sole intent of producing a cheaper option is not much different than e knock offs we see across the fashion industry.
So how much time needs to pass since Longines stopped making the no date LLD for you guys to be comfortable getting this Helson?

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New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by Seppia » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:45 am

Totally agree with ryeguy
Copy of an old, out of production watch: lame but ultimately ok (I’ve owned many of these lame watches, they never stick)

Copy of a currently available watch that costs 100x the original: very lame and sad but ultimately still ok (never owned one of these, ie nautilus copy)

Copy of currently available watch that is priced similarly to the original: sad and not ok

Of course everybody draws the line where they want

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by dnslater » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:03 am

Panerai7 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:42 am
Ryeguy wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:08 am
While I realize it is all a personal decision as to where your judgement lies on these "homages", I'm going with the hard pass on this one. I can't be disgusted with the MM300 copies and Tuna copies being so beloved on WUS and not lump this into the same category.

The SM300 copy I feel is a different animal as the original design is long out of production. The only way to get an "original" is through Watchco, and I have often wondered how they seem to have found an endless supply of NOS Omega SM300 cases.

The Ploprof "homage" irks me a bit too. If memory serves, O7 released their copy, then Omega re-released it, then Helson released their copy a couple years after (like '08, then '09, then 2012). Given the closeness of the releases and the time it likely took all three makers to tool up, the Ploprof homages are a little bit more grey than this Longines copy.

In my opinion, making a watch that is a derivative design of a long out of production watch is fair game. Copying a current design with the sole intent of producing a cheaper option is not much different than e knock offs we see across the fashion industry.
So how much time needs to pass since Longines stopped making the no date LLD for you guys to be comfortable getting this Helson?
Date or no date, it is still a currently produced watch by the original manufacturer. Just because the date version is no longer offered doesn't make it an out of production design.

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by Ryeguy » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:10 am

Panerai7 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:42 am
Ryeguy wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:08 am
While I realize it is all a personal decision as to where your judgement lies on these "homages", I'm going with the hard pass on this one. I can't be disgusted with the MM300 copies and Tuna copies being so beloved on WUS and not lump this into the same category.

The SM300 copy I feel is a different animal as the original design is long out of production. The only way to get an "original" is through Watchco, and I have often wondered how they seem to have found an endless supply of NOS Omega SM300 cases.

The Ploprof "homage" irks me a bit too. If memory serves, O7 released their copy, then Omega re-released it, then Helson released their copy a couple years after (like '08, then '09, then 2012). Given the closeness of the releases and the time it likely took all three makers to tool up, the Ploprof homages are a little bit more grey than this Longines copy.

In my opinion, making a watch that is a derivative design of a long out of production watch is fair game. Copying a current design with the sole intent of producing a cheaper option is not much different than e knock offs we see across the fashion industry.
So how much time needs to pass since Longines stopped making the no date LLD for you guys to be comfortable getting this Helson?
I know - it is a personal thing and even a point I am not 100% in compliance with.

For example, I shoot and sometimes carry this:
Image

Which is a pretty close replication of this:
Image

Walther still makes, and profits from, the PPK/S design, yet I bought a Sig. :shrug:

Taking a step back, it is pretty odd to have one set of standards for watches and a looser set of standards for firearms.

I'm still bothered by this Helson, but I'll agree my feelings really aren't all that logical.

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by Panerai7 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:19 am

dnslater wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:03 am
Panerai7 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:42 am
Ryeguy wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:08 am
While I realize it is all a personal decision as to where your judgement lies on these "homages", I'm going with the hard pass on this one. I can't be disgusted with the MM300 copies and Tuna copies being so beloved on WUS and not lump this into the same category.

The SM300 copy I feel is a different animal as the original design is long out of production. The only way to get an "original" is through Watchco, and I have often wondered how they seem to have found an endless supply of NOS Omega SM300 cases.

The Ploprof "homage" irks me a bit too. If memory serves, O7 released their copy, then Omega re-released it, then Helson released their copy a couple years after (like '08, then '09, then 2012). Given the closeness of the releases and the time it likely took all three makers to tool up, the Ploprof homages are a little bit more grey than this Longines copy.

In my opinion, making a watch that is a derivative design of a long out of production watch is fair game. Copying a current design with the sole intent of producing a cheaper option is not much different than e knock offs we see across the fashion industry.
So how much time needs to pass since Longines stopped making the no date LLD for you guys to be comfortable getting this Helson?
Date or no date, it is still a currently produced watch by the original manufacturer. Just because the date version is no longer offered doesn't make it an out of production design.
Ok I'll wait then. Maybe JLC will screw down Polaris crowns next year. Thanks for the pep talk 😂

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by Americandave » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:29 am

Ryeguy wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:10 am
Panerai7 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:42 am
Ryeguy wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:08 am
While I realize it is all a personal decision as to where your judgement lies on these "homages", I'm going with the hard pass on this one. I can't be disgusted with the MM300 copies and Tuna copies being so beloved on WUS and not lump this into the same category.

The SM300 copy I feel is a different animal as the original design is long out of production. The only way to get an "original" is through Watchco, and I have often wondered how they seem to have found an endless supply of NOS Omega SM300 cases.

The Ploprof "homage" irks me a bit too. If memory serves, O7 released their copy, then Omega re-released it, then Helson released their copy a couple years after (like '08, then '09, then 2012). Given the closeness of the releases and the time it likely took all three makers to tool up, the Ploprof homages are a little bit more grey than this Longines copy.

In my opinion, making a watch that is a derivative design of a long out of production watch is fair game. Copying a current design with the sole intent of producing a cheaper option is not much different than e knock offs we see across the fashion industry.
So how much time needs to pass since Longines stopped making the no date LLD for you guys to be comfortable getting this Helson?
I know - it is a personal thing and even a point I am not 100% in compliance with.

For example, I shoot and sometimes carry this:
Image

Which is a pretty close replication of this:
Image

Walther still makes, and profits from, the PPK/S design, yet I bought a Sig. :shrug:

Taking a step back, it is pretty odd to have one set of standards for watches and a looser set of standards for firearms.

I'm still bothered by this Helson, but I'll agree my feelings really aren't all that logical.
Except the Sig is vastly superior in terms of use. It is not remotely a PPK copy.

Sorry, had to chime in because I love the 230 series.

I’ve been on the lookout for an actual 200m compressor style diver for a while. Bit bummed that all the NDs are gone from longines like many others on this thread.

Am I crazy or is longines stacking up really well against Tudor in the price/quality/style department these days?

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by Steelman » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:32 am

Even big brands copy others' designs.

I mean, how many brands have a Submariner look alike....

Everyone has to make his own decision. But let's be honest....there are many who will never have $9k (or even $2k) to spend on a watch.

Microbrands offer an alternative. Original, not really. Affordable for the common man - yes.

and let's also be honest and admit that some (not all) of these microbrands actually produce a quality product. Maybe not superior...but quality nonetheless.

Would I rather have the original? Of course. But I've got three kids to put through college and a genuine BP 50 fathoms or LNIB Omega PloProf/Seamaster 1000 will never be in my budget.

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Re: New release by Helson. I don't quite get the point/

Post by ericf4 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:43 am

i totally get the argument for micro brands, that still does nothing for the idea of an almost 100% theft of another design.

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