why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by Jeep99dad » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:44 pm

tattoo chef wrote:I’ll say this..this one is beautiful
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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by toxicavenger » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:09 pm

I like most of the GP's I have seen in person. The resale on them is brutal though.

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by BacoNoir » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:02 pm

streetracer101 wrote:
dinexus wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:48 pm
...Wasn't Timeless a GP AD until somewhat recently? Can Brett or Dan chime in on why they're not anymore? Asking for a friend :bs:
It is probably extremely difficult to sell a brand at MSRP that routinely is sold for 40% off or more on the gray market.

They were. A few years ago, I flew down to check one out IRL with intent to buy the Girard-Perregaux Traveller Large Date Moonphase GMT
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Great looking watch at a fair price with discount offered, but there were 2 fatal flaws for me, so I left without making the buy.

1) the GMT function was reversed. The pusher changed the time on the small subdial rather than indexing the hour hand on the main dial.

2) When I unscrewed the crown to see what the different setting positions did, the crown / stem pulled right out of the case.

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by dinexus » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:51 pm

BacoNoir wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:02 pm
...Great looking watch at a fair price with discount offered, but there were 2 fatal flaws for me, so I left without making the buy.

1) the GMT function was reversed. The pusher changed the time on the small subdial rather than indexing the hour hand on the main dial.

2) When I unscrewed the crown to see what the different setting positions did, the crown / stem pulled right out of the case.
1) Interesting – I wondered what the pusher did, and agree – not adjusting the main hour hands would be a deal-breaker for me as well. This has been one of my favorite designs of theirs in recent years though.

2) Ahh, the 'ol crown fatality. Always reminds me of this:

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by streetracer101 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:51 am

BacoNoir wrote:
streetracer101 wrote:
dinexus wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:48 pm
...Wasn't Timeless a GP AD until somewhat recently? Can Brett or Dan chime in on why they're not anymore? Asking for a friend :bs:
It is probably extremely difficult to sell a brand at MSRP that routinely is sold for 40% off or more on the gray market.

They were. A few years ago, I flew down to check one out IRL with intent to buy the Girard-Perregaux Traveller Large Date Moonphase GMT
Image

Great looking watch at a fair price with discount offered, but there were 2 fatal flaws for me, so I left without making the buy.

1) the GMT function was reversed. The pusher changed the time on the small subdial rather than indexing the hour hand on the main dial.

2) When I unscrewed the crown to see what the different setting positions did, the crown / stem pulled right out of the case.
Ouch. That is embarrassing.

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by demer03 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:03 am

streetracer101 wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:41 pm
I think the prices scare most off. For those not scared by the prices, I think a lot of their offerings are either too big or too out there design wise for most people.
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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by jimyritz » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:15 am

Always wanted a Sea Hawk...but for what GP charge would rather have a VC or AP....

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by TimelessLuxWatches » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:37 am

dinexus wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:48 pm
...Wasn't Timeless a GP AD until somewhat recently? Can Brett or Dan chime in on why they're not anymore? Asking for a friend :bs:
Brett here.

GP was great, and our relationship worked well for what we needed at that stage in our operations, which is a lot more complex than bottom-line revenue from watch sales.

As per why GP is sort of an also-ran in the high-end world, I think that's a pretty complex question. From a design standpoint, they're certainly not bad, with plenty of attractive models, but they lack that icon that everyone else established in that segment have. There's no RO, no Calatrava, no Nautilus, no Patrimony etc. I don't think that's for lack of trying, but for whatever reason, they're not there yet (and that's kind of a problem, a ton of these iconic watches were designed in the '70s. I almost feel like if you missed the boat in the '70s, you're kind of just out of luck).

There are some movement "issues" too. The base movement that GP uses is quite good, and comparable in most ways to their competition. My concern there is that GP is really into modules, which is a perfectly reasonable cost-saving measure, but when we're dealing with watches in this price range, I'd prefer to have a unique integrated movement for every complication, which saves quite a bit of space.

But, as others have pointed out, I think they're having a really tough time figuring out what price they want to play at. For whatever reason, internally, they fully believe they should be priced as direct competitors to VC and AP. I admire the ambition, but it seems self-evident that they're going to have to work their way back up into that sphere.

If I were running GP, I'd really put a lot of market research into trying to find a single hit watch, something equivalent to what the Black Bay is to Tudor. There might be several failures before success, but GP has a very rich pedigree to draw on, so I don't think this is impossible. Then advertise the hell out of that single watch and use it to elevate the rest of the lineup, which is actually quite solid already.

In the mean time, you can get a legit high-end watch for the price of something like an Omega now, and that's quite a deal. If you plan on keeping it for a long time, that's very appealing. You MIGHT even get lucky if they do find their step again down the road.

Anyway, no hard feelings here between GP and Timeless, we were just going in different directions and we routinely have to prune brands for needs as pedestrian as space issues. It's a physically small store so we will rotate through brands with some frequency.

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by jimyritz » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:51 am

Thanks Brett-- excellent info.

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by dinexus » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:27 am

TimelessLuxWatches wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:37 am
In the mean time, you can get a legit high-end watch for the price of something like an Omega now, and that's quite a deal. If you plan on keeping it for a long time, that's very appealing. You MIGHT even get lucky if they do find their step again down the road...
Damn Brett, that's awesome insight. Agree that the brand is missing its 'hit', but that's perhaps the role the Laureato is looking to fill – whether the market responds in kind to the pricing is a totally different story.

Guess I coulda sent you a PM to cut straight to the chase, but we all would have missed out on what's been a somewhat entertaining thread. At least for a Tuesday...

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by TimelessLuxWatches » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:49 am

Oh yeah, happy to share.

I do think the Laureato has that potential. It certainly comes from that era and style that most of the other high-end classics from. It's also backed up by a good, thin movement.

In my humble opinion, if they could just stomach a major price adjustment on that one piece, and then create some variety and buzz around it, they might have a hit on their hands. The thing is, if you price a hit watch well enough, which is to say if the demand exceeds supply, you won't be seeing these huge discounts and grey market deals on a piece. I think they need a piece like that, strategically speaking. Then they begin to raise prices until they find a nice balance.

But then, I don't know the ins and outs of running a large watch company, so perhaps that's just my naivete speaking.

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by jimyritz » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:54 am

Back in the day, seemed as if everyone wanted a Sea Hawk...

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by streetracer101 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:12 pm

TimelessLuxWatches wrote:Oh yeah, happy to share.

I do think the Laureato has that potential. It certainly comes from that era and style that most of the other high-end classics from. It's also backed up by a good, thin movement.

In my humble opinion, if they could just stomach a major price adjustment on that one piece, and then create some variety and buzz around it, they might have a hit on their hands. The thing is, if you price a hit watch well enough, which is to say if the demand exceeds supply, you won't be seeing these huge discounts and grey market deals on a piece. I think they need a piece like that, strategically speaking. Then they begin to raise prices until they find a nice balance.

But then, I don't know the ins and outs of running a large watch company, so perhaps that's just my naivete speaking.
I think you're onto it. UN is another company that seems to be priced above what it can sell at. I love many of their models, but I wouldn't touch a new one because of the massive amount available on gray market for 1/2 off retail.

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by TimelessLuxWatches » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:13 pm

The Sea Hawks are still cool, but everyone has upped their game so much. I suspect even Omega is starting to feel the pressure from Tudor's Black Bay and Pelagos.

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by toxicavenger » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:11 pm

jimyritz wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:54 am
Back in the day, seemed as if everyone wanted a Sea Hawk...
I bought one for a friend that worked with my in Iraq back in the day. It was a super dope watch and I loved the bracelet on it. He still has it, but he lives in Brazil and he is scared to wear it because of crime in his hood. So it just sits in his watch box now.




Thanks for the killer information Brett? :thumbsup:

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by jimyritz » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:03 am

TimelessLuxWatches wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:13 pm
The Sea Hawks are still cool, but everyone has upped their game so much. I suspect even Omega is starting to feel the pressure from Tudor's Black Bay and Pelagos.
--------------------

Great point on Tudor- look at IWC, using Sellita movements in their Mark XVIII's. Speaking of Omega, I just think they inflate their prices because they know they are being discounted ;) ;) ;)

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by sierra11b » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:07 am

I like the new seahawk a lot but it's a watch that could only work in rotation, and the price is simply too high. If I want a watch that fills that niche it's going to be an LV which will hold its value well.

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by dinexus » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:29 am

toxicavenger wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:11 pm
I bought one for a friend that worked with my in Iraq back in the day. It was a super dope watch and I loved the bracelet on it. He still has it, but he lives in Brazil and he is scared to wear it because of crime in his hood. So it just sits in his watch box now.
This thing is cool as shit. Still one of my favorite modern divers, but echoing other comments – too tall, and just a hair too far 'out there' to justify as a frequent flier.

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by JP Chestnut » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:43 am

That watch is horrible. Seriously. I realize everyone likes different stuff, but... no. No if it's cheap. Hell no if it's not.

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by TimelessLuxWatches » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:57 am

It gets really weird when you see how they had to design the module for that movement. I wish I had some photos of it, but as I recall they would basically make windows in the module itself because the date was on the original/integrated movement, then the module fit over that and covered up the date. There were two windows, if my memory is correct, underneath the dial, which allowed GP to move the date window in the dial to two places without modifying the movement.

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by FlyPenFly » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:00 am

You know, I thought so too from pics but when I got to play with one, it actually felt and looked much better in person. For some reason it kind of looks like an Orc in pictures.

Gotta agree with Brett, that seems like a winning strategy.

I think there are some some brands like Omega who did some modern wonders like the Planet Ocean which ruled it's price class. They could try making something new that makes the rest of the line up look dated like the PO did to the rest of the Seamaster line.

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by logan2z » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:30 am

TimelessLuxWatches wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:57 am
There were two windows, if my memory is correct, underneath the dial, which allowed GP to move the date window in the dial to two places without modifying the movement.
This is the problem with a lot of modern watches - companies allow the design to be dictated by the underlying movement design, rather than designing something aesthetically pleasing and then finding or developing a movement that enables that design. Obviously it's cheaper to just pick an existing movement and do your best to design a watch around it, but that leads to the sort of hot mess we see with this GP.

I see the effects of a similar approach on many modern software application UIs. They often reflect the design limitations of the underlying software/hardware and the result is a badly compromised user experience.

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by dinexus » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:32 pm

TimelessLuxWatches wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:57 am
It gets really weird when you see how they had to design the module for that movement. I wish I had some photos of it, but as I recall they would basically make windows in the module itself because the date was on the original/integrated movement, then the module fit over that and covered up the date. There were two windows, if my memory is correct, underneath the dial, which allowed GP to move the date window in the dial to two places without modifying the movement.
That is actually insane. Explains why it looks like the date is trynna dig itself through to the other side of the watch.

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by toxicavenger » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:49 pm

dinexus wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:29 am
toxicavenger wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:11 pm
I bought one for a friend that worked with my in Iraq back in the day. It was a super dope watch and I loved the bracelet on it. He still has it, but he lives in Brazil and he is scared to wear it because of crime in his hood. So it just sits in his watch box now.
This thing is cool as shit. Still one of my favorite modern divers, but echoing other comments – too tall, and just a hair too far 'out there' to justify as a frequent flier.

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His was the 1st Gen. And for the size it wore small since the case actually curved around the wrist. I loved everything about it including the bracelet. But in pics I hated it. :scratch:

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Re: why won't anybody touch Girard Perregaux?

Post by greenlightning » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:55 am

Great insight, Brett. Thanks for the response. I attended a night with gp at timeless a few years back and had a great time. They had some really cool high end stuff like triple bridge tourbillon and equation of time etc that were really cool to see in person. I did like some of the traveler series and have liked various sea wolf's over the years, but would not compare them with vc or AP.

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