Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

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Ryeguy
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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by Ryeguy » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:19 pm

toxicavenger wrote:Kobold has been having problems for a while with their cases. And his Dad owns an industrial machine shop for aviation parts.
I know very little about Kobold's specific situation, but his cases seem to be a much more original design. Maybe this originality is contributing to his difficulties?

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5661nicholas
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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by 5661nicholas » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:24 pm

justsellbrgs wrote:
toxicavenger wrote:Kobold has been having problems for a while with their cases. And his Dad owns an industrial machine shop for aviation parts.
he buys his cases from China then..... no way around it ---- believe me, I deal with this every day.

I send a print -- they say yes they can make it.

They make it -- some tolerances are off.

they say they will make again.

Fewer tolerances are off..... better but not correct.

3rd or 4th time they are right... and I send the product to an independent engineer in China for QC. And my engineer on staff does QC.

And we check first article.... and random check every shipment based on quantity.

stuff that looks like this --- bigger and smaller


Image
Good looking bearings, can I ask who you work for?


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streetracer101
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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by streetracer101 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:28 pm

Ryeguy wrote:
toxicavenger wrote:Kobold has been having problems for a while with their cases. And his Dad owns an industrial machine shop for aviation parts.
I know very little about Kobold's specific situation, but his cases seem to be a much more original design. Maybe this originality is contributing to his difficulties?
Doubt it if his CS is any indication of the type of QC his cases receive.

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logan2z
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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by logan2z » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:29 pm

marchone wrote:I think that point may have been lost on Andrew.
It wasn't. I just didn't think your example was a particularly good one.

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marchone
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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by marchone » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:32 pm

I wrote "similarly", not exactly. You focused on IP, ignoring moral equivalency, which was my point. Each and every one of these arguments ends the same way. When IP issues are shown resolved the moral argument comes into play but conveniently ignores a plethora of other common examples. It's become a pet peeve for many hardcore watch fans. YMMV.

:cheers:
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logan2z
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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by logan2z » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:25 pm

marchone wrote:I wrote "similarly", not exactly. You focused on IP, ignoring moral equivalency, which was my point.
I ignored it for two reasons:

1) I don't object to the Guinault on moral grounds.

2) I wasn't going to get sucked into a pointless discussion about Nazi Germany in a thread about a Rolex homage.

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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by Limeybastard » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:29 pm

Just wish they did this timepiece in a larger case with GMT option.

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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by hoppes-no9 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:38 pm

JDC222 wrote:I kinda like that OWC :fro:
My thought exactly.

Wouldn't it be ironic if a review of this watch led people to buy another brand.

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marchone
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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by marchone » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:44 pm

logan2z wrote: 1) I don't object to the Guinault on moral grounds.

2) I wasn't going to get sucked into a pointless discussion about Nazi Germany in a thread about a Rolex homage.
1) Then I assume you consider it to be an IP issue. Yet Rolex hasn't blocked it (it may still), and Mk II (among others) continues unabated.

2) It's an issue to a lot of people. You choose to ignore it. As I do. I've owned two VWs and a Porsche. But I recognize the arguments existence.
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logan2z
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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by logan2z » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:51 pm

marchone wrote:
logan2z wrote: 1) I don't object to the Guinault on moral grounds.

2) I wasn't going to get sucked into a pointless discussion about Nazi Germany in a thread about a Rolex homage.
2) It's an issue to a lot of people. You choose to ignore it. As I do. I've owned two VWs and a Porsche. But I recognize the arguments existence.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say I chose to ignore the issue, I said I didn't think this thread was an appropriate place to discuss it.

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Bradystraps
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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by Bradystraps » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:56 pm

Alright Andrew and Wayne...................... stop yer bickering and go purchase a Nordic Shield. A real Micro.





:stir:
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Image

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gonzomantis
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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by gonzomantis » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:01 pm

Is the clasp on the bracelet a copy of the Rolex Glidelock?

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marchone
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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by marchone » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:04 pm

logan2z wrote:Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say I chose to ignore the issue, I said I didn't think this thread was an appropriate place to discuss it.
Good enough.
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hidden by leaves
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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by hidden by leaves » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:16 pm

gonzomantis wrote:Is the clasp on the bracelet a copy of the Rolex Glidelock?
Yes, from what I recall reading it's a straight replica (minus branding, of course).
Send lawyers, guns and money...

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gonzomantis
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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by gonzomantis » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:19 pm

hidden by leaves wrote:
gonzomantis wrote:Is the clasp on the bracelet a copy of the Rolex Glidelock?
Yes, from what I recall reading it's a straight replica (minus branding, of course).
And isn't the Glidelock patented? :stir:

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marchone
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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by marchone » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:24 pm

Good question. If it is Ginault should pay or immediately cease production.
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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by JP Chestnut » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:27 pm

gonzomantis wrote:Is the clasp on the bracelet a copy of the Rolex Glidelock?
They like to call them "homages".

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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by logan2z » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:50 pm

gonzomantis wrote:
hidden by leaves wrote:
gonzomantis wrote:Is the clasp on the bracelet a copy of the Rolex Glidelock?
Yes, from what I recall reading it's a straight replica (minus branding, of course).
And isn't the Glidelock patented? :stir:
https://www.google.com/patents/EP1908366A1

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marchone
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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by marchone » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:54 pm

That is a smoking gun.
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tattoo chef
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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by tattoo chef » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:01 pm

logan2z wrote:
gonzomantis wrote:
hidden by leaves wrote:
gonzomantis wrote:Is the clasp on the bracelet a copy of the Rolex Glidelock?
Yes, from what I recall reading it's a straight replica (minus branding, of course).
And isn't the Glidelock patented? :stir:
https://www.google.com/patents/EP1908366A1
Seppia wrote:Uh oh
I've seen it used on cheaper homage/knockoff watches before.

While we might think..oh no, they are dead now, I guarantee it isn't even on Rolex's radar.


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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by hoppyjr » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:42 am

gonzomantis wrote:
hidden by leaves wrote:
gonzomantis wrote:Is the clasp on the bracelet a copy of the Rolex Glidelock?
Yes, from what I recall reading it's a straight replica (minus branding, of course).
And isn't the Glidelock patented? :stir:
Which brings us back to the entire "Rep" issue.....

I don't object to Made in China items because most stuff made there is of very good quality today; see any Apple device, not to mention many "big Swiss" watch parts. Of course, many decent micros including our own member brands (and many of Zacks dancers) are also MIC and are terrific, because we know what we are getting. What I have an issue with is stuff like the fake Glidelock clasp and the complete and total disregard for intellectual property rights in China.

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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by greenlightning » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:56 am

Watches are entirely an emotional item. Wearing anything like this on my wrist would stir up great, great, negative emotions in my soul.

I'm not judging you, if you're at peace with it. I do some shit that would make you sick to your stomach that I see no issue with.

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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by andrema » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:02 am

greenlightning wrote:. I do some shit that would make you sick to your stomach that I see no issue with.

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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by Ryeguy » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:32 am

tattoo chef wrote:
logan2z wrote:
gonzomantis wrote:
hidden by leaves wrote:
gonzomantis wrote:Is the clasp on the bracelet a copy of the Rolex Glidelock?
Yes, from what I recall reading it's a straight replica (minus branding, of course).
And isn't the Glidelock patented? :stir:
https://www.google.com/patents/EP1908366A1
Seppia wrote:Uh oh
I've seen it used on cheaper homage/knockoff watches before.

While we might think..oh no, they are dead now, I guarantee it isn't even on Rolex's radar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
While I agree you are correct (reportedly some brand named Tissell makes a sub homage with a glide lock type clasp), the is a danger to Rolex if fails to defend their patent.

I'm not a lawyer, but my layman's understanding is while patent protection lasts 6 years, a patent owner may not be able to seek damages if they fail to defend their patent after 3 years.

I'm actually surprised the clasp issue took until page 6 to be brought up. I mentioned it in my review and stated it was my biggest point of issue with the watch.

While legal technicalities may allow someone to make a Glidelock copy, my feeling is if Rolex is still producing and driving revenue from the design, it is not ethically proper to copy it.

That said, I don't have a problem with the rest of the watch. To even make this into a 16610 replica you'd have to replace the crystal, dial, hands, crown and case back. By my count, there are many more "homages" which fly closer to the replica line than this one.

It is a "homage" watch. Other than the clasp, I don't see it ethically any worse than any other 5517 homage on the market today.

I've purposesly tried to stay off this thread as any review of this watch seems to devolve into a "homages are OK versus homages suck" discussion. It is what it is.

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Re: Ginault Ocean Rover Thoughts and Comparisons

Post by marchone » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:36 am

Does Rolex sell the Glidelock clasp separately?
only accurate watches are interesting

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