The Dive Watch Connection

Hi All,
If you saw my "Hi" thread, you'll have seen a bit about my watchmaking past and that I was working on something new.

I've got a dilemma, but anyway, here are the renderings that I'm about to pull the trigger on prototyping, basically an evolution of my previous "Bravus Oceanic":



The specs are:

All steel case and strap
Aluminium bezel
Sapphire crystal
Seiko 4R36 auto movement
Super Luminova

The dilemma I have that I have to choose which case style and bracelet.

The "cushion" case is 47mm without crown, the other is 44mm. Both have 22mm lug width.

I don't like "big" watches, but when I was doing this case, I wanted a retro, almost Seiko 6105 vibe. I also think maybe a slightly domed crystal, as the one I installed on my SKX009 transformed it.

"H" link bracelet or the classic oyster?

This watch isn't meant to be a proper divers tool watch. It's a mish-mash of what I like about the divers I own.

The 200m water resistance will be real, but in reality to a casual buyer it means it's safe to swim in and wear on the beach.

I just wanted to do a rugged watch that would go with anything.

I will also do a colour matching silicone strap with deployment clasp in the package. Apart from the clasp, this will be off the shelf as the molds for the case and "H" strap will cost enough...

Aiming to sell for about $299 all in.

I've been told you guys will be brutally honest. If you make me cry, I'll make a 52mm case and make it out of brass

Oh, and they won't be called "everblue" anymore as the wife said you can't have a black watch called that...even though it was a reference to the sea itself, just haven't got around to rendering a different name on the face.

Cheers

T

I think they both look good, but my preference just based on visuals is the cushion case and H bracelet. 47mm is too big for me personally though.

I like them both but would lean toward the cushion case. The only thing I'm not keen on are the hands

Seppia wrote:Aren't they too similar to the new Seiko reissues coming out?
They're nice, but too derivative honestly.

Not denying that Andrea, like I say, they're a mish-mash of what I like about divers watches.

snootydog wrote:I like them both but would lean toward the cushion case. The only thing I'm not keen on are the hands

Yeah, that is the main complaint I'm getting on the other forums I've asked to have a look-see. I will have a think about what to do with them.

I prefer the cushion case but dislike the use of the hands here.

Seppia wrote:

TonyMaroney wrote:

Seppia wrote:Aren't they too similar to the new Seiko reissues coming out?
They're nice, but too derivative honestly.

Not denying that Andrea, like I say, they're a mish-mash of what I like about divers watches.

I'm not criticizing, I'm not among those that absolutely hate homages (I'm looking hard at the Borealis copy of the Seamaster big triangle these days and will most probably pull the trigger), thing is Seiko is coming out with a reissue of the cushion case in December-January, you risk being squeezed out as they will have the same movement, same price (or better) and will be actual Seiko watches.

I actually didn't realise that. Maybe my decision has been made for me.

You think the non cushion would stand up?

I would really like to see an affordable dive watch with Aquatimer style hands Kadloo did it with one of their watches but that's the only one I can think of. Still, there are plenty of hand styles you could try.

I won't buy because the I'm already set aside money for at least one Seiko 6309 re-issue and I don't like the logo with the name spelled out below. Sorry. I'd just keep "Deaumar" and leave the branding on the crown or the clasp like you have. Not saying I don't like the design, but I think you've missed the boat on this one.

Use the 4r36 in a 62mas with grey sunburst and now you're talking! You could even use one of these case designs for a Seiko Rally-diver inspired model with new plots and straight beveled racing hands.

sierra11b wrote:I won't buy because the I'm already set aside money for at least one Seiko 6309 re-issue and I don't like the logo with the name spelled out below. Sorry. I'd just keep "Deaumar" and leave the branding on the crown or the clasp like you have. Not saying I don't like the design, but I think you've missed the boat on this one.

Use the 4r36 in a 62mas with grey sunburst and now you're talking! You could even use one of these case designs for a Seiko Rally-diver inspired model with new plots and straight beveled racing hands.

I like the way you think Eric, that would look killer, but would also be a straight homage. TBH, I was also toying with trying a Pogue style layout, with a chrono movement.

I think the larger case designs look a lot like a Doxa but crown at 4. That would be my choice but I'm not in the market for any micros (or anything else really) at the moment. I think the hands are too Seiko and I do agree that the reissue of the 6309 by Seiko would obviate the need for an homage.

TBH, I wasn't aware of the Seiko reissues so in my mind it kinda kills off the cushion case, so let's concentrate on the 44mm case.

And yeah, I will look at the hands.

T

I like the SAS copy better than the Doxa copy, but would always rather see an original design instead. If you really feel intent on making something that harkens to the past, why not choose a watch not currently made or copied? A 6309-129a with a hacking movement would be a pretty popular watch at your price.

namor wrote:I like the SAS copy better than the Doxa copy, but would always rather see an original design instead. If you really feel intent on making something that harkens to the past, why not choose a watch not currently made or copied? A 6309-129a with a hacking movement would be a pretty popular watch at your price.

I didn't really want to do a copy of anything in particular, but I also wanted to keep the watch as accessible as possible. Due to mold costs and prototyping I didn't want to risk it on something "out there" just yet, I just want to make sure that it appeals to as many potential purchasers as possible.

I don't want to just clone a watch. I have an idea of a 6139 Pogue homage, but it won't be a copy with a different name on it, it will be different in many aspects but when looked at as a whole, it will betray its influences.

I kind of wish someone would do a micro with a Koboldesque vibe. Give it a clean dial, no date, and hands similar to the Kobold Phantom / Sinn EZM style.

Drop in a Miyota 9015 or Seiko 6r15 and give it Viton gaskets, slightly domed crystal, and drilled lugs. Make it 42mm X 13.5mm with 22mm lugs.

Sell the bad boy for less than $500 and it's a sure winner.

Not to confuse things, but Graeme's Mileata with Kobold/Sinn style dial & hands would be absolutely perfect.

hoppyjr wrote:I kind of wish someone would do a micro with a Koboldesque vibe. Give it a clean dial, no date, and hands similar to the Kobold Phantom / Sinn EZM style.

Drop in a Miyota 9015 or Seiko 6r15 and give it Viton gaskets, slightly domed crystal, and drilled lugs. Make it 42mm X 13.5mm with 22mm lugs.

Sell the bad boy for less than $500 and it's a sure winner.

Not to confuse things, but Graeme's Mileata with Kobold/Sinn style dial & hands would be absolutely perfect.

There are quite a few minimalist micros on KS. I guess like William Orbit, when talking about music, said something along the lines of "only try and do music that you love".

So I guess my designs are a reflection of what I would buy myself...which could well be the downfall

I think both designs are ok. I mean they look nice. Always loved my Doxa SUB750T so I'm a big cushion case fan, but to be brutally honest, they look a lot like everything else out there. I guess what I mean is they don't really "stand out". IMO (and it's only my opinion) a micro brand design should not be a copy of something already designed by a larger maker, or for that matter, it shouldn't even be a combination of design elements from various other brands. Granted, it's a hard thing to accomplish... You want something that is timeless, but stands out. Something that looks different but not something that looks "cartoon-ish". Something that is simple and balanced, but not another Sea Dweller or PO.... Man, you've got your work cut out for you Sorry if this sounds harsh, but once again it's only one guys opinion.

Edit: I just noticed your price point. At $299 "something different" might not be so feasible. I should just shut my cake hole

I like them both but with those hands they look too much like a Seiko diver... It does not help that I don't like the shape either...

Maybe you can use another type of hands. My favorite would be Sumo type or FFF type. But you could also design a brand new one.

The other thing that I would change is the bezel, too many lines on it. I would much prefer a more vintage look like those with the red triangle.

The 12 marker should be a upside down triangle too in my opinion.

If you could include a domed sapphire crystal it would rock.

If you don't want to do any of the above changes, I would suggest you keep on it the Seiko movement, make the dial size, hands, bezel insert the same size/dimensions of the Seiko SKX divers, that way one can customize it the way he likes.

Otherwise well done so far, very nice!

stumpy1972 wrote:I think both designs are ok. I mean they look nice. Always loved my Doxa SUB750T so I'm a big cushion case fan, but to be brutally honest, they look a lot like everything else out there. I guess what I mean is they don't really "stand out". IMO (and it's only my opinion) a micro brand design should not be a copy of something already designed by a larger maker, or for that matter, it shouldn't even be a combination of design elements from various other brands. Granted, it's a hard thing to accomplish... You want something that is timeless, but stands out. Something that looks different but not something that looks "cartoon-ish". Something that is simple and balanced, but not another Sea Dweller or PO.... Man, you've got your work cut out for you Sorry if this sounds harsh, but once again it's only one guys opinion.

Edit: I just noticed your price point. At $299 "something different" might not be so feasible. I should just shut my cake hole

I agree fellah. It's just some of my more "far out" ideas will cost a fortune to get molds etc done...but you've got to start somewhere so I guess making a good looking, "normal" watch, with appeal to people who aren't WISes with great quality at a good price will help to launch the "brand" and be a springboard to better watches. I think.

But as Socrates said, all knowledge comes from knowing, that you know nothing

stumpy1972 wrote:I think both designs are ok. I mean they look nice. Always loved my Doxa SUB750T so I'm a big cushion case fan, but to be brutally honest, they look a lot like everything else out there. I guess what I mean is they don't really "stand out". IMO (and it's only my opinion) a micro brand design should not be a copy of something already designed by a larger maker, or for that matter, it shouldn't even be a combination of design elements from various other brands. Granted, it's a hard thing to accomplish... You want something that is timeless, but stands out. Something that looks different but not something that looks "cartoon-ish". Something that is simple and balanced, but not another Sea Dweller or PO.... Man, you've got your work cut out for you Sorry if this sounds harsh, but once again it's only one guys opinion.

Edit: I just noticed your price point. At $299 "something different" might not be so feasible. I should just shut my cake hole

Totally agree with this - minus the cake hole remark This is why micros like Aegir and SAS stand out to me - their designs are unique and not just another watch that looks like 1000 other watches. I realize that's a tall order for most micro brands and, as was mentioned, maybe even taller at your target price point. But besides a sense of personal accomplishment, I don't see the point of producing a watch that's sure to get lost in the crowd.

TonyMaroney wrote:you've got to start somewhere so I guess making a good looking, "normal" watch, with appeal to people who aren't WISes with great quality at a good price will help to launch the "brand" and be a springboard to better watches. I think.

Yea man! I agree and I think they are very nice watch designs to accomplish just that. Best of luck with your horological endeavor.

I would take the 44mm case and give it the cushion effect. I know you want to have a 6105 appearance, but with a new 6309 coming out and the Dagaz watches on the market currently I think you are fighting an uphill battle - and a tough one. Both bracelets look good.

The bezel looks a very crowded and almost confusing. I think you could clean it up quite a bit and make it better looking and far more appealing.

The hands are too short and diminutive. They are too close to SKX stylying. Better, more suitably sized hands are a must.

I agree with the note above regarding the logo.

Be careful not to look like a mish mash of styles instead of blending styles you enjoy. We often hear the term here... it looks like a mish mash of styles, and not in a good way.

You must ask yourself "why would someone want to buy this watch?". It has to stand out a bit from the crowd. Your target price point is fantastic, and that might cause someone to buy, especially with a bracelet. A few changes as to styling cues and you will have something for the micro buyer to consider.

Best of luck.

logan2z wrote:

stumpy1972 wrote:I think both designs are ok. I mean they look nice. Always loved my Doxa SUB750T so I'm a big cushion case fan, but to be brutally honest, they look a lot like everything else out there. I guess what I mean is they don't really "stand out". IMO (and it's only my opinion) a micro brand design should not be a copy of something already designed by a larger maker, or for that matter, it shouldn't even be a combination of design elements from various other brands. Granted, it's a hard thing to accomplish... You want something that is timeless, but stands out. Something that looks different but not something that looks "cartoon-ish". Something that is simple and balanced, but not another Sea Dweller or PO.... Man, you've got your work cut out for you Sorry if this sounds harsh, but once again it's only one guys opinion.

Edit: I just noticed your price point. At $299 "something different" might not be so feasible. I should just shut my cake hole

Totally agree with this - minus the cake hole remark This is why micros like Aegir and SAS stand out to me - their designs are unique and not just another watch that looks like 1000 other watches. I realize that's a tall order for most micro brands and, as was mentioned, maybe even taller at your target price point. But besides a sense of personal accomplishment, I don't see the point of producing a watch that's sure to get lost in the crowd.

I am doing it for me TBH. It's not about the money at this price point, bar a Swiss movement, it's as high quality as I could make it for the target price. Someone said "If you enjoy the journey, it doesn't matter if you don't get to the destination"

Believe it or not, there's no readily available case like either of these, they'll have to fire up the CNC to make them. Same with the "H" strap. So the startup isn't cheap, but they are based on the kind of watches I like to buy myself.

So if I make the protos, love them and sell none, it'll still be worth it.

I guess some will be wondering why I've bothered asking for opinions, but I'm taking them on board as it would be nice if more than just me wanted to wear one

T.R. wrote:I would take the 44mm case and give it the cushion effect. I know you want to have a 6105 appearance, but with a new 6309 coming out and the Dagaz watches on the market currently I think you are fighting an uphill battle - and a tough one. Both bracelets look good.

The bezel looks a very crowded and almost confusing. I think you could clean it up quite a bit and make it better looking and far more appealing.

The hands are too short and diminutive. They are too close to SKX stylying. Better, more suitably sized hands are a must.

I agree with the note above regarding the logo.

Be careful not to look like a mish mash of styles instead of blending styles you enjoy. We often hear the term here... it looks like a mish mash of styles, and not in a good way.

You must ask yourself "why would someone want to buy this watch?". It has to stand out a bit from the crowd. Your target price point is fantastic, and that might cause someone to buy, especially with a bracelet. A few changes as to styling cues and you will have something for the micro buyer to consider.

Best of luck.

Many thanks for your input. The hands are straight from the SKX as I have 2 of them and love them, so thought they'd be a sensible choice...but obviously not. Something longer and simpler is in order.

Lose the red logo? You're not the first to say that...I like it but I have been very wrong many times in my life, hence why I'm wanting opinions

TonyMaroney wrote:

T.R. wrote:I would take the 44mm case and give it the cushion effect. I know you want to have a 6105 appearance, but with a new 6309 coming out and the Dagaz watches on the market currently I think you are fighting an uphill battle - and a tough one. Both bracelets look good.

The bezel looks a very crowded and almost confusing. I think you could clean it up quite a bit and make it better looking and far more appealing.

The hands are too short and diminutive. They are too close to SKX stylying. Better, more suitably sized hands are a must.

I agree with the note above regarding the logo.

Be careful not to look like a mish mash of styles instead of blending styles you enjoy. We often hear the term here... it looks like a mish mash of styles, and not in a good way.

You must ask yourself "why would someone want to buy this watch?". It has to stand out a bit from the crowd. Your target price point is fantastic, and that might cause someone to buy, especially with a bracelet. A few changes as to styling cues and you will have something for the micro buyer to consider.

Best of luck.

Many thanks for your input. The hands are straight from the SKX as I have 2 of them and love them, so thought they'd be a sensible choice...but obviously not. Something longer and simpler is in order.

Lose the red logo? You're not the first to say that...I like it but I have been very wrong many times in my life, hence why I'm wanting opinions

I kind of like your logo. I prefer that over the brand name. Definitely one or the other. An inexpensive way to set yourself apart might be in how you do your indices. I'm not an artist, so I don't have a tip there for you. But something interesting yet simple might be helpful. For instance, compare the dials of a 6309, 6105, and a Tuna. The indices on each are quite simple, yet totally different. Your watch has a distinct 6309 vibe, and that's cool. But doing something a bit different there will set you apart. You don't have to go balls out different... just a bit different.