Randall Benson - DEADBEAT! What Would You Do?

[namor]

Sometimes you can be too close to a problem, and its good to get more objective perspectives.

I ordered a watch from a well known and highly regarded watch 'customizer' six months ago[ Randall Benson, Dr. Seiko]. I sent him $300 as a deposit, and believed that represented 50% of the watch cost, the balance due when it was ready to ship "in a few months". I was wrong - in re-reading our emails, I see now that we misunderstood each other in the ordering process. At least half the misunderstanding was on my end, but he did use the phrase "50% down" when quoting the $300, so he's not blameless either.

Anyway, in November, he emails me to say that the sapphire crystal I want for the watch will cost him some cash he doesn't readily have, would I send another $250 to cover its cost as well as that for several others he can use on orders he has in hand. I didn't want to be in the small loans business, so I replied "I'll send you $300 and then my watch will be fully paid for". Thats when we discovered the misunderstanding about the price of my watch, which he quoted as $750 plus shipping.

We exchanged several polite emails about this developement, but couldn't find any common ground. Ultimately, I said cancel the watch - which he hadn't started work on - and send me a refund. He said that he could have sold the rare dial I'd reserved for a $50 profit, and stated he'd have to deduct that from the deposit. He further said he'd refund the $250 whenever he could. A few more emails, not as polite (but civil) were exchanged, and I demanded a time for when I'd get the refund. Still "when I can" was his reply. And, in the month or so since these events, silence from him.

I've purchased three watches from him directly, and two others in the marketplace, and always sung his praises for the quality of his work. Obviously, that will end. But, should I continue to wait for the promised refund in silence or warn fellow watch guys of his ethical deficit? WWYD?

Edited to add his name since he refuses to communicate further.

[JP Chestnut]

I'd tell him to shove that rare dial up his ass and refund the full amount.

[JBZ]

Number one, the whole, "send me $250 to cover the cost of your crystal PLUS several others" is very inappropriate in my view. As you stated, you're not in the small loan business. This would have annoyed me a lot.

Secondly, it sounds like the two of you had an honest misunderstanding as to price, which is fine. Further, if you're okay with the $250 refund instead of $300, that's fine, too (and it sounds like he has at least a semi-legitimate reason for withholding the $50 - did he ever specify that any of the deposit was non-refundable?). However, telling you he'll get you the $250 "when he can" is not acceptable, regardless of what his personal financial situation might be.

I think I'd take another run at him and try to work it out amicably, but tell him that if he isn't able to get you the refund within a week, you'll have no choice but to "out" him on various watch fora. It would be unfortunate if it came to that (and you can expect blow back from him), but you really don't have much other recourse. It's not like you're going to sue him over $250 dollars.

[sierra11b]

I would stop being so nice next time. Give him an ultimatum and money time line until you go public with who this guy is.

Not a watch but years ago I commissioned a custom knife from a known knife maker and deposited thousands. Turns out just as my number in the queue is called he goes through a bitter divorce and custody battle and liquidated everything down to his massive shop. I eventually had to go get the BBB and his local police dept involved. It was nasty and I got back most of my money.

[Joeprez]

Payment was via paypal? Can you file a claim?

If so, give him a set period of time to refund the money. If it doesn't happen, file the claim and out him.

[kfalk]

That's no way to run a business.

Sincerely,
You know who

B.S. and no way I'd let him hold onto that cash any longer. As Jeff said really disturbing that he actually admitted that he was going to use your money to fund other clients parts. I'd also tell him that you want the full $300 - let's call the $50 interest.

Guy is not right in the head.

[r.palace]

Payment was via paypal? Can you file a claim?

If so, give him a set period of time to refund the money. If it doesn't happen, file the claim and out him.

Transaction happened 6 months ago.

I'd ultimately tell him to refund you the entire $300 or you'll let the multiple fora know about the situation. That would seem to be the best option now. No way I'd let anyone just keep $50 or even a dollar of my money for some bullshit excuse

[Mr_Pacman]

How long ago did you pay him the money? I think paypal has a 45 day claim limit.

[Joeprez]

Payment was via paypal? Can you file a claim?

If so, give him a set period of time to refund the money. If it doesn't happen, file the claim and out him.

Transaction happened 6 months ago.

I'd ultimately tell him to refund you the entire $300 or you'll let the multiple fora know about the situation. That would seem to be the best option now. No way I'd let anyone just keep $50 or even a dollar of my money for some bullshit excuse

Missed that... too bad.

Out him!

[moishlashen]

I would be amicable until it's time to not be amicable. Bill er I mean the seller might have reason to not send you the money as he may not have a "cancelled order" process in place or even know how to handle one. He literally might not have the money to send you as it may be invested.

He's wrong IMO and he's being a dick about it-but you still want your money back I'd imagine-so I think the only thing you can do is be amicable. I might send him a "nice" email weekly just to stay fresh on his mind-hell maybe it will increase the driving force to get your money back.

Side note-I've come to the conclusion that I hate pre-orders of any and all kinds and there is a microscopic chance I ever do another one.

Good luck Seth.

[T.R.]

Obviously the person you are dealing with is in the wrong to the fullest extent of being in the wrong.

That being said... if he doesn't have the money to refund to you, he doesn't have it. That is a factor out of your control.

In these cases I remain ultimately amicable until I have at least a major portion of my cash back before turning into the dick that I know I can be.

You catch a lot more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

[Torrid]

I did a preorder once for the XW Tsunami knowing it was a toss up for when the movements would be available, but that overall went smoothly with a 2 month wait. The whole custom order and wait thing is probably something I'd avoid nowadays from everything I've seen online from many places that do business this way.

[toxicavenger]

If you haven't heard from him in a month you should "out" him on the forums. He still has his fanboi's but I would still put it out there for people to judge whether or they wanna take that chance also. For me it is a obligation to call someone a black sheep when they are. To many times people don't do this and more people get shafted.

Good luck bro and you know we all have your back no matter what you decide.

[carlodwc]

I would be amicable until it's time to not be amicable. Bill er I mean the seller might have reason to not send you the money as he may not have a "cancelled order" process in place or even know how to handle one. He literally might not have the money to send you as it may be invested.

He's wrong IMO and he's being a dick about it-but you still want your money back I'd imagine-so I think the only thing you can do is be amicable. I might send him a "nice" email weekly just to stay fresh on his mind-hell maybe it will increase the driving force to get your money back.

Side note-I've come to the conclusion that I hate pre-orders of any and all kinds and there is a microscopic chance I ever do another one.

Good luck Seth.

Unless you change your mind and decide to wait for the watch, I would do exactly as above and simply nudge him regularly to refund the agreed amount. I don't know if there is a way to leave feed back on him but if there is that should also be done, not to bad mouth him but simply to state the facts.

[justsellbrgs]

Obviously the person you are dealing with is in the wrong to the fullest extent of being in the wrong.

That being said... if he doesn't have the money to refund to you, he doesn't have it. That is a factor out of your control.

In these cases I remain ultimately amicable until I have at least a major portion of my cash back before turning into the dick that I know I can be.

You catch a lot more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

this is the way to go for now... but I'd also ask a DWC mod to move this to RR and post who the guy is.
Sure he is having a hard time and his business skills suck, but I wouldn't want another DWCer to stumble into this type of mess if I could help avoid.

[Ryeguy]

My opinion is it is time to stop being so nice.

It sounds like you cancelled the order sometime in November and we are now just about at February. It isn't like your down payment was thousands of dollars, it was $300. This is money a viable small business should be able to put together in 2 months (note I said "viable" - the fact he asked for a loan suggests he is not).

Unless there is a specifically stated cancellation fee, I believe you are entitled to your full $300. The fact that he could've potentially sold the dial you had reserved for your watch at a profit has no bearing on the conversation. It would be like you saying you could've taken that $300 deposit and combed the local thrift stores and bought a vintage diver at a huge profit. Hypothetical scenarios have no bearing on the refund question - only what was stated in your agreement.

That said, I would hang on to every single email exchange as a record in case you need to take him in front of Judge Judy.

[DenverBuff]

I'd tell him to hold that rare dial.

Between his knees.

[logan2z]

How long ago did you pay him the money? I think paypal has a 45 day claim limit.

PayPal updated their dispute filing window in November:

"We’re increasing the time for buyers to file a merchandise dispute (Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described) from 45 days to 180 days."

This may not apply if the transaction described in this thread took place before the effective date of the new policy.

[namor]

I took the above advice - wrote to him asking for an update on the refund... He replied that I was "bullying" him and that as a result he'd no longer respond to me!

Randall Benson, aka Dr. Seiko, is a great watchbuilder but a deadbeat and a flake. Trust your money to him at your own peril.

[jswing]

I took the above advice - wrote to him asking for an update on the refund... He replied that I was "bullying" him and that as a result he'd no longer respond to me!

Randall Benson, aka Dr. Seiko, is a great watchbuilder but a deadbeat and a flake. Trust your money to him at your own peril.

WTF? You're a bully? Sorry Seth.

[CGSshorty]

Would you like this to remain in the Main Forum? I can move it to the RR if you'd like.

[toxicavenger]

Didn't you read my post in the past about this guy?? He is a certified quack. Hell he came here trying to Wu to take down my post a few years back. Oh...............and so did Yap but either way Benson is out there.

What is crazy I hit him up about some work a while back and his reply was kind of shady, well Ben on this forum brought it up and we kind of blew it off because he wasn't worth talking about and that dude comes here saying it was a conspiracy or some crap like that. I think he was wearing his foil hat at the time also.

If it was me I would go to wus, scwf and wrist sushi and blast him. You will NOT get any cash back from this dude. Believe me when I say that. He has been holding on to people's watches for years and also their money and a ton of them haven't heard back from him.

[toxicavenger]

Would you like this to remain in the Main Forum? I can move it to the RR if you'd like.

I wouldn't but it Seth's call. I think it would get more hits being seen here.

[rain_maker]

I took the above advice - wrote to him asking for an update on the refund... He replied that I was "bullying" him and that as a result he'd no longer respond to me!

Randall Benson, aka Dr. Seiko, is a great watchbuilder but a deadbeat and a flake. Trust your money to him at your own peril.

WTF?!?!

Bullying?? Seriously?? He not only needs business skillz but he needs to grow a pair. Deadbeat and a pussy.

Glove come off IMO - I'd post on other the fora...

[JP Chestnut]

When did "bully" enter the lexicon of acceptable speech for grown men?