So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

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Dixan
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So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by Dixan » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:33 am

Yikes. What were they thinking? :banghead:

Do you think that some companies are boldly raising prices, or setting them high to begin with, on ETA based watches (like Tudor with the Pelagos/BB, and IWC here) because ETA movements will soon be far more limited? :think: I can't think of any other justification for such high prices for these kind of watches.

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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by Kustoms4ever » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:36 am

Correct me if I'm wrong but these are highly modified base ETA movements. So maybe the price is justified.


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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by jimyritz » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:53 am

Dixan wrote:Yikes. What were they thinking? :banghead:

Do you think that some companies are boldly raising prices, or setting them high to begin with, on ETA based watches (like Tudor with the Pelagos/BB, and IWC here) because ETA movements will soon be far more limited? :think: I can't think of any other justification for such high prices for these kind of watches.
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So the new Ing doesn't have an in-house? I wonder what the price would be if it did...Probably a lot of variables factoring into the price, but overall seems like pricing is high across the board...

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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by Dixan » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:06 pm

jimyritz wrote:
Dixan wrote:Yikes. What were they thinking? :banghead:

Do you think that some companies are boldly raising prices, or setting them high to begin with, on ETA based watches (like Tudor with the Pelagos/BB, and IWC here) because ETA movements will soon be far more limited? :think: I can't think of any other justification for such high prices for these kind of watches.
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So the new Ing doesn't have an in-house? I wonder what the price would be if it did...Probably a lot of variables factoring into the price, but overall seems like pricing is high across the board...
Nope. Same 2892.A2 based caliber as the AT 2000's (cal. 30110). $6,500 is $900 more than the AT 2000 on steel bracelet. Not sure what's going on. That's almost exactly Rolex Explorer money ($6,550).

Johnny, I believe they are now just plug-and-play, IWC signed, complete ETA movements. No longer highly modified movements built on ETA ebauches. (97% sure of this, but could be wrong.)
Last edited by Dixan on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by Kustoms4ever » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:07 pm

Dixan wrote:
jimyritz wrote:
Dixan wrote:Yikes. What were they thinking? :banghead:

Do you think that some companies are boldly raising prices, or setting them high to begin with, on ETA based watches (like Tudor with the Pelagos/BB, and IWC here) because ETA movements will soon be far more limited? :think: I can't think of any other justification for such high prices for these kind of watches.
-----------

So the new Ing doesn't have an in-house? I wonder what the price would be if it did...Probably a lot of variables factoring into the price, but overall seems like pricing is high across the board...
Nope. Same 2892.A2 based caliber as the AT 2000's (cal. 30110, it's called, I believe?). $6,500 is $900 more than the AT 2000 on steel bracelet. Not sure what's going on. That's almost exactly Rolex Explorer money ($6,550).

Johnny, I believe they are now just plug-and-play, IWC signed, complete ETA movements. No longer highly modified movements built on ETA ebauches.
Damn if thats the case they do seem a bit high...
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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by jimyritz » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:21 pm

I was floored by the price of the new Spitfire Chrono--even with in-house $10.7K...I can only imagine the price of the new Aquatimers (2014 is the year of the AT)..

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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by Dixan » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:27 pm

jimyritz wrote:I was floored by the price of the new Spitfire Chrono--even with in-house $10.7K...I can only imagine the price of the new Aquatimers (2014 is the year of the AT)..
Everything is big $$$$ now. :banghead: :shrug:

I have high hopes for a 3536 inspired AT for next year. Just not at $7,000 + ETA. ;-)

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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by craniotes » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:31 pm

The movements are modified to the same extent as before, however it's now all handled entirely on-premises by ETA, exclusively for IWC. Don't like it? Talk to Swatch Group, since they're the ones who are no longer providing ebauches to brands not safely tucked away 'neath their corporate umbrella.

Explorer prices? Perhaps, though a better match would be the Milgauss, which retails for $7650 and doesn't sport half as finely finished or complicated a case. Too much for a modified ETA? Well, that's for folks to decide on their own, though I will say that while this is the price I predicted, it would've been nice to see IWC price them more aggressively. Still, there aren't many ETA-based watches from comparable manufactures out there that sell for less; the 41.5mm Omega AquaTerra is probably the closest, and that one retails for $5500 from what is arguably a less prestigious brand, regardless of how Omega or their fans would like to spin it. With the c.80110 under the hood, the price would be kissing $8K, easily, so I applaud IWC for at least attempting to keep the door open for entry-level buyers.

Long story short: the 40mm Inges are coming in at pretty much the exact price point I figured they would.

And folks are complaining exactly like I figured they would as well. ;)

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Adam

PS - You think these prices are bad? Check out the MSRP on the Constant-Force Tourbillon... :shock:
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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by Dixan » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:43 pm

craniotes wrote:Still, there aren't many ETA-based watches from comparable manufactures out there that sell for less; the 41.5mm Omega AquaTerra is probably the closest, and that one retails for $5500 from what is arguably a less prestigious brand, regardless of how Omega or their fans would like to spin it.
C'mon, this using of the Omega 8500's gray-ish "in-house status" is exactly the laziest way to defend an ETA based caliber like the 30110 and its 2892.A2 base in a discussion like this. Let's not get into whether the Omega 8500 is "truly in-house," but rather focus on the fact that it's a far more advanced movement compared to something like the 30110, or even Omega's own 2500D. And the 8500 AT is $1,000 less.

(For the record, I like the 2892.A2. I've written before that Omega's old cal. 1120 is like horological comfort food for me. ;-))

My point is, I'm not anti-ETA in any way. I think any collection should have some true workhorse movement equipped watches that are easy to use, and easy to service. I'm just not willing to spend $6-7-8k+ on such a watch.

Btw, just for fun: My friends inside Omega/Swatch, who were master watchmakers for Omega at HQ, have said to me before that even in their view, IWC is "far more exclusive," than Omega. They seemed to be very fond of IWC, in general — in admiration, really. Very surprising to me.

Now, please, please IWC, release an affordable 3536 inspired AT next year! :thumbsup:

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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by JBZ » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:56 pm

I think luxury watches are getting more and more expensive simply because they can. I always go back to my 36mm Datejust. The same model (same movement, basically the same case, same water resistance, more advanced bracelet clasp) has more than doubled in price since I purchased it about 14 years ago (and it wasn't exactly cheap then). Yet, Rolex sells every watch it makes. They do it because they can.

Hard to say they're not worth it if people will pay the price to own them.
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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by T.R. » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:58 pm

What does it cost to build one of these ETA motors? Or, better yet, what does it cost to buy... just an ETA motor, basically?

Does anyone actually know that answer? :shrug:

Given fine watch prices in general... Rolex Sub, Rolex Expy, any IWC, virtually all Omega watches now... $6500 seems about right... not that I could justify it.

It seems like some of these guys see our economy as fab based on their prices. But, if they can sell them for that money, more power to them.
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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by craniotes » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:06 pm

Actually, I was laboring under the impression that the 41.5mm AT still used the 2500; yes, with the 8500 it's quite a value, indeed (I'm a big fan of the 8500, never mind that it barely qualifies as "in-house" ;) ). Of course, Omega's economies of scale are several orders of magnitude higher than IWC's, which does allow them some more latitude when setting prices, even on their in-house pieces.

Anyway, my point was merely that there aren't many ETA-based watches from marques as highly-regarded as IWC that retail for less on a bracelet. While I'm sure that IWC could easily sell the ref. 3239 for less, they do have to cast a wary eye on their overall brand recognition and then price inventory accordingly. Is $6500 more than the market will bear? Time will tell.

Do with that what you will.

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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by Kustoms4ever » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:08 pm

Hey F you guys I like Omega !!!! hahahaha

:bird:

Omega FTW! :love:
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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by Dixan » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:14 pm

Kustoms4ever wrote:Hey F you guys I like Omega !!!! hahahaha

:bird:

Omega FTW! :love:
Hahaha... :cheers:

You know me — I like Omega as much as the next guy, and likely more than most. I can like them fine, however, and also acknowledge that IWC is a bit more boutique, a bit more exclusive. Saying so isn't putting down Omega in any way. At least that's not how I mean it. ;)
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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by craniotes » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:14 pm

Don't worry, I like Omega too.

I just like IWC more. ;)

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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by dukerules » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:14 pm

Is 2014 really going to be the year of the Aquatimer? That would be cool. And yes, a new 3536-inspired AT would potentially rock my world.

Adam makes a good point about the fact that there really isn't much comparable to the new Inges in this price segment. And they do look good, even if I much prefer the dials on the 3227s.
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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by craniotes » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:16 pm

Yes, the Aquatimer is up next.

My only fear is that if they go in-house the price is going to get really stupid.

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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by Kustoms4ever » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:18 pm

craniotes wrote:Don't worry, I like Omega too.

I just like IWC more. ;)

Regards,
Adam

shhhhh....secretly I like Rolex more now too.... :mrgreen:
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“The Royal Oak was the first of its kind. 40 years later, it remains unmatched amongst prestige sport watches. This is only the beginning of an authentic icon that is making an indelible imprint on the history of modern watchmaking."

-François-Henry Bennahmias, CEO of Audemars Piguet,

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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by Dixan » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:24 pm

craniotes wrote:Yes, the Aquatimer is up next.

My only fear is that if they go in-house the price is going to get really stupid.

Regards,
Adam
Well, the iconic 3536 wasn't in-house either. It seems to be the one ETA based model that gets a pass from IWC fans in the movement department.

IF they brought the AT back towards the 3536 style, design wise, I'm okay with them using the 30110 (maybe with some minor enhancements?), but just don't price them at $7,300.

Maybe they can/will do something like what they've done with the 43 mm Pilot Chronos — have the standard range run ETA, and be priced in the $5,800-6,300 range, and then have one in-house model, a la new Spitfire Chrono, at $10k, or whatever.

Asking for the standard model to come in at an ideal $5,300 would be asking too much, though, right? :mrgreen:

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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by craniotes » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:36 pm

Dixan wrote:
craniotes wrote:Yes, the Aquatimer is up next.

My only fear is that if they go in-house the price is going to get really stupid.

Regards,
Adam
Well, the iconic 3536 wasn't in-house either. It seems to be the one ETA based model that gets a pass from IWC fans in the movement department.

IF they brought the AT back towards the 3536 style, design wise, I'm okay with them using the 30110 (maybe with some minor enhancements?), but just don't price them at $7,300.

Maybe they can/will do something like what they've done with the 43 mm Pilot Chronos — have the standard range run ETA, and be priced in the $5,800-6,300 range, and then have one in-house model, a la new Spitfire Chrono, at $10k, or whatever.

Asking for the standard model to come in at an ideal $5,300 would be asking too much, though, right? :mrgreen:
A lot of ETA-based IWC's get a pass; this "in-house or nothing" thing is a relatively new phenomenon in the industry as manufactures try to separate themselves from the pack and stay ahead of Swatch Group's threat to turn off the tap. In fact, IWC's early modifications to the 2892 -- performed by none other than Richard Habring -- wound up being incorporated into the A2 variant, so if anyone should still be using these movements, it's IWC. It's just a shame that the cost-savings one would hope to see aren't necessarily reflected in the final product.

A re-issue of the 3536 would be something to behold, though truth be told, that model was never my favorite; my heart belongs to the 3538/48 and current Galapagos. Now, if they wanted to do a tribute to the Porsche Design Ocean 2000... Hell, they could stick a Miyota in there and I'd still pay top dollar for it. ;)

Regards,
Adam

PS - Whatever they do bring out, don't hold your breath for a sub-$6K price point. :crybaby:
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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by JBZ » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:44 pm

If in-house movements are becoming the new phenomenon, Rolex is going to start looking like an absolute bargain with some of these other brands going into five figures for an in-house movement. Note that I'm not saying that an in-house movement, simply by virtue of being an in-house movement, is necessarily better.
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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by craniotes » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:47 pm

The difference is that Rolex churns out a million movements a year, with only incremental changes; probably costs them less to make a 3135 than it does for ETA to make a 2892.

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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by JBZ » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:49 pm

craniotes wrote:The difference is that Rolex churns out a million movements a year, with only incremental changes; probably costs them less to make a 3135 than it does for ETA to make a 2892.

Regards,
Adam
I'm sure you're right. I'm thinking of the collector (or pseudo-collector) who becomes convinced that he absolutely HAS TO HAVE an in-house movement. From a pure price standpoint based on this criteria alone, Rolex starts looking pretty good (Seiko even better :grin: ).

P.S. I think it's funny that the Deep Sea Challenge or even the regular Deep Sea uses the exact same movement that I have in my watch, given that they're umpteen times more expensive - those are all about the case and crystal.
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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by belligero » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:51 pm

craniotes wrote:The difference is that Rolex churns out a million movements a year, with only incremental changes; probably costs them less to make a 3135 than it does for ETA to make a 2892.

Regards,
Adam
Whoa, let's not get too carried away here... :geek:
:thumbsup:

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Re: So, $6,500 for the new 40 mm IWC Ingenieur?

Post by craniotes » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:54 pm

C'mon, Ryan, they're as automated and efficient as ETA, and they're just as vertically integrated.

Trust me, they have this shit down to a science; same goes for their marketing machine.

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