Missed opportunity

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dukerules
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by dukerules » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:11 pm

Vintage Rolex are such a minefield. And I'm not paying those insane bubble prices. This hobby makes no sense, but buying vintage Rolex now takes the craziness to another level in my very humble opinion.

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streetracer101
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by streetracer101 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:13 pm

goaliechris wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:06 pm

Do you have a time machine I could borrow???


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If I did, I'd buy up a shit ton of snowflakes and red subs.

Ironically, I think that watch sat here for a week or two before I ended up trading it. If memory is correct, I listed it for around $4200. I couldn't get used to the tiny ass crown. It felt too feminine to me.

I think the hoarders are probably the smartest of all us here. The kinds of returns River Rat could see on his collection must be staggering.

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goaliechris
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by goaliechris » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:16 pm

Maybe the smart move is to get a 16710 and call it a day?


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goaliechris
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by goaliechris » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:20 pm

dukerules wrote:Vintage Rolex are such a minefield. And I'm not paying those insane bubble prices. This hobby makes no sense, but buying vintage Rolex now takes the craziness to another level in my very humble opinion.
I think I’m realizing this. Too much to worry about. I think I thought I might be able to grab one similar to the one I missed - one owner, all original, but well worn.

A good 16750 is what I’d really like.


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streetracer101
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by streetracer101 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:22 pm

goaliechris wrote:Maybe the smart move is to get a 16710 and call it a day?


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That would be my plan. Unless you love vintage, or cannot get used to the cases of the newer ones, the modern Rolexes are better on virtually every level. I think the mid to late 90's was the sweet spot for Rolex. They still have great case proportions and some character, but they are cheaper and can still be found fairly easily with sharp cases.

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JP Chestnut
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by JP Chestnut » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:05 pm

goaliechris wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:16 pm
Maybe the smart move is to get a 16710 and call it a day?


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Nice ones of those are 8k-9k...

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goaliechris
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by goaliechris » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:11 pm

JP Chestnut wrote:
goaliechris wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:16 pm
Maybe the smart move is to get a 16710 and call it a day?


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Nice ones of those are 8k-9k...
Good to know - thanks. I think I’d look for a version with lug holes if I go that route.


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matt.wu
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by matt.wu » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:08 pm

streetracer101 wrote:
goaliechris wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:06 pm

Do you have a time machine I could borrow???


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If I did, I'd buy up a shit ton of snowflakes and red subs.

Ironically, I think that watch sat here for a week or two before I ended up trading it. If memory is correct, I listed it for around $4200. I couldn't get used to the tiny ass crown. It felt too feminine to me.

I think the hoarders are probably the smartest of all us here. The kinds of returns River Rat could see on his collection must be staggering.
:lol:

I can't think this way. I've passed on and/or sold many watches that are worth wayyyyy more these days. Vintage, Patek, Rolex.....
:htfu:

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rain_maker
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by rain_maker » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:13 pm

matt.wu wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:08 pm
streetracer101 wrote:
goaliechris wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:06 pm

Do you have a time machine I could borrow???


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If I did, I'd buy up a shit ton of snowflakes and red subs.

Ironically, I think that watch sat here for a week or two before I ended up trading it. If memory is correct, I listed it for around $4200. I couldn't get used to the tiny ass crown. It felt too feminine to me.

I think the hoarders are probably the smartest of all us here. The kinds of returns River Rat could see on his collection must be staggering.
:lol:

I can't think this way. I've passed on and/or sold many watches that are worth wayyyyy more these days. Vintage, Patek, Rolex.....
No s#it - i just checked prices on 'recon after reading this thread...
I've had my 16710 for about a year and half and I can't believe the prices now. I shoulda put my 401k into subs and gmts ...

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JP Chestnut
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by JP Chestnut » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:14 pm

goaliechris wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:11 pm
JP Chestnut wrote:
goaliechris wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:16 pm
Maybe the smart move is to get a 16710 and call it a day?


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Nice ones of those are 8k-9k...
Good to know - thanks. I think I’d look for a version with lug holes if I go that route.


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This is a nice one:
https://www.lunaroyster.com/watches/199 ... papers-sel

It seems no matter the price, these watches sell. The $6500 I paid last year for my NOS 16610LV is looking like a steal now. 100% return on the purchase price. I buy to hold, so these prices suck ass.

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toxicavenger
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by toxicavenger » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:18 pm

Papers on a 1974 watch? I don't give a shit about. Case shape is what I would worry about. Most of the 1675's I have seen Rolex has already changed out the hands on them. So it isn't common to see they not matching it seems.

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goaliechris
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by goaliechris » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:22 pm

Nice one. How about:

https://www.lunaroyster.com/watches/199 ... epsi-bezel


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JP Chestnut
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by JP Chestnut » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:25 pm

goaliechris wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:22 pm
Nice one. How about:

https://www.lunaroyster.com/watches/199 ... epsi-bezel


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It's OK. The clasp has been polished a few times. It also lacks SELs if you care (I prefer them).

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BBK357
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Missed opportunity

Post by BBK357 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:50 pm

You can still get s decent vintage gmt for around 8k.
You don’t need box and papers- and if you want them on a decent gmt then your price gets boosted another 4k.
Like others said- original dial and hands in good condition. And the hands can look great and don’t have to be rusty to be original. The one you posted had good looking hands, they looked fine to me and were most likely original. Make sure the lume glows evenly dim and no one has messed with the dial.

Case condition is next priority. Small dings and scratches are to be expected. Just look at the lugs and make sure they aren’t polished down too much. If you are buying local, ask the watchmaker to pop the caseback off to see the movement.

DEATH FROM ABOVE
:ak:

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goaliechris
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Missed opportunity

Post by goaliechris » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:02 am

BBK357 wrote:You can still get s decent vintage gmt for around 8k.
You don’t need box and papers- and if you want them on a decent gmt then your price gets boosted another 4k.
Like others said- original dial and hands in good condition. And the hands can look great and don’t have to be rusty to be original. The one you posted had good looking hands, they looked fine to me and were most likely original. Make sure the lume glows evenly dim and no one has messed with the dial.

Case condition is next priority. Small dings and scratches are to be expected. Just look at the lugs and make sure they aren’t polished down too much. If you are buying local, ask the watchmaker to pop the caseback off to see the movement.
Thanks - good advice and appreciate your comments on the watch. He’s sending more pics as soon as he can get them.

Looking at some prices, I’ve also noticed them in the high 7s to 8s. I may still may be interested If the new pics are better. But not at the 10.5 he quoted to me.

I keep forgetting that vintage watches require a lot more work and can be risky. As I stated earlier, going with a 90s 16710 seems less risky and cheaper than a 1675 or 16750 - and as someone pointed out you get a better watch.

I am learning a lot, which is fun.

Edit - Too expensive but dayum:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/m ... ice+Papers

Or at half the price:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=578772

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JP Chestnut
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by JP Chestnut » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:27 am

What do you think a fold in a 40 year old piece of paper would look like? Not that nice in my experience.


I'm to the point with these sellers that I would need to send the papers to a lab to buy that they're not fake.

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goaliechris
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by goaliechris » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:36 am

JP Chestnut wrote:What do you think a fold in a 40 year old piece of paper would look like? Not that nice in my experience.


I'm to the point with these sellers that I would need to send the papers to a lab to buy that they're not fake.
It’s not the original paperwork either - it’s the service paperwork from 1989. Same with the warranty card.


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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by BacoNoir » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:47 am

JP Chestnut wrote:
matt.wu wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:44 am
rain_maker wrote:
goaliechris wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:20 am
How about absence of papers? Let’s say dial, hands, bezel all check out as original. Would you wait for another opportunity given no papers? I know it’s based on level of comfort.


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I'd be ok w no papers if its a seller you can trust (I've done this 3x ... twice on Tudor and once on Rolex). Priority should be:

1) Dial / hands
2) Dial / hands
3) see 1 & 2
4) Papers
5) Bracelet

BTW you can always get service papers later that help with resale (e.g, service by RUSA, Bob Ridley, etc) if that's important to you.
Case condition, at least for me, is above papers. You can't add a bunch of metal back to an overpolished case. And there is nothing as special as an untouched case, even if it's all scratched up.
I'm interested in the upper bound of what LAWW can do. Your Tudor case looks great from what I've seen. Can they do anything about thin crown guards?
Redoing the case will kill the value of the watch in the eyes of most vintage buyers.
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JP Chestnut
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by JP Chestnut » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:02 am

BacoNoir wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:47 am
JP Chestnut wrote:
matt.wu wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:44 am
rain_maker wrote:
goaliechris wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:20 am
How about absence of papers? Let’s say dial, hands, bezel all check out as original. Would you wait for another opportunity given no papers? I know it’s based on level of comfort.


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I'd be ok w no papers if its a seller you can trust (I've done this 3x ... twice on Tudor and once on Rolex). Priority should be:

1) Dial / hands
2) Dial / hands
3) see 1 & 2
4) Papers
5) Bracelet

BTW you can always get service papers later that help with resale (e.g, service by RUSA, Bob Ridley, etc) if that's important to you.
Case condition, at least for me, is above papers. You can't add a bunch of metal back to an overpolished case. And there is nothing as special as an untouched case, even if it's all scratched up.
I'm interested in the upper bound of what LAWW can do. Your Tudor case looks great from what I've seen. Can they do anything about thin crown guards?
Redoing the case will kill the value of the watch in the eyes of most vintage buyers.
I don't think that's true anymore. Everyone wants "fat cases" and "nice chamfers" these days. Amazingly, the sellers seem to have a never-ending supply of such watches at very high prices. It's all a wink wink nudge nudge - everyone knows they're heavily worked but nobody says anything. Most 30-year-old watches look like shit, yet most of what we see for sale is pretty nice.

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goaliechris
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by goaliechris » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:40 am

JP Chestnut wrote:
BacoNoir wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:47 am
JP Chestnut wrote:
matt.wu wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:44 am
rain_maker wrote:
goaliechris wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:20 am
How about absence of papers? Let’s say dial, hands, bezel all check out as original. Would you wait for another opportunity given no papers? I know it’s based on level of comfort.


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I'd be ok w no papers if its a seller you can trust (I've done this 3x ... twice on Tudor and once on Rolex). Priority should be:

1) Dial / hands
2) Dial / hands
3) see 1 & 2
4) Papers
5) Bracelet

BTW you can always get service papers later that help with resale (e.g, service by RUSA, Bob Ridley, etc) if that's important to you.
Case condition, at least for me, is above papers. You can't add a bunch of metal back to an overpolished case. And there is nothing as special as an untouched case, even if it's all scratched up.
I'm interested in the upper bound of what LAWW can do. Your Tudor case looks great from what I've seen. Can they do anything about thin crown guards?
Redoing the case will kill the value of the watch in the eyes of most vintage buyers.
I don't think that's true anymore. Everyone wants "fat cases" and "nice chamfers" these days. Amazingly, the sellers seem to have a never-ending supply of such watches at very high prices. It's all a wink wink nudge nudge - everyone knows they're heavily worked but nobody says anything. Most 30-year-old watches look like shit, yet most of what we see for sale is pretty nice.
Solid point, thanks. Think I will wait for that 16710 w lug holes with info.

Such a minefield but I know there are good 1675 and 16750 available. That’s why I was so pissed when I missed that 1675 by one day. Single owner, papers, beat to hell but beautiful all the same. It was a known quantity provided by a trusted seller. White whale...




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james80
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Missed opportunity

Post by james80 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:17 am

JP Chestnut wrote:What do you think a fold in a 40 year old piece of paper would look like? Not that nice in my experience.


I'm to the point with these sellers that I would need to send the papers to a lab to buy that they're not fake.
This doesn’t look to bad at 33 years old but then the keeper was meticulous.

Image

But I agree with you without proof that the proof is real you really have to buy the seller and trust he trusted the seller he got it from and so on and so on.

What happens to parts taken out during service? Are they destroyed? Is it possible that older looking dials and hards are floating around? So if for example a set of hands looks too new someone could install hands with more patina that were not original to the watch.

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JP Chestnut
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by JP Chestnut » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:41 am

I've heard from a number of old time collectors that those replaced parts have (at least in the past) been sold out the back door.

I once saw a stack of 50 "blueberry" inserts in RSC packaging, that a buddy got from someone who worked at a RSC in Europe.

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JP Chestnut
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by JP Chestnut » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:43 am

Also, there are apparently genuine Rolex all brown gmt inserts floating around. I've never seen one in person, or offered for sale, but I don't doubt their existence. When the market is right, they will start floating out - like the blueberry did a few years ago.

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goaliechris
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by goaliechris » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:09 am

I've seen those blueberries on eBay - some kind of premium for an all blue and faded bezel.

So basically vintage is just a crapshoot - even if it looks all original on the outside it could be replaced parts both in and out. I guess I knew that - just forgot how hard it is to buy right in this space.

Well, if you guys see anything out there that looks legit and interesting, please let me know. I'm on the hunt and having fun shopping but I'm obviously a newb on the details that really matter.

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Steve O.
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Re: Missed opportunity

Post by Steve O. » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:20 am

Was into vintage Rolex back when most models were semi-affordable. Of course those days are gone, and current prices are just crazy stupid. Same with vintage Seiko. Who in the hell would have imagined 6217s going for $3K? But I digress... It's always been about originality, and to some, provenance. Finding a nice clean unmolested 1675 - great. One from an original owner with boxes and papers - even more so.

Three of the few that I kick myself for selling:


Image


Image


Image


And one that thankfully I've had the sense to hold onto:


Image
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